My Experience with D10.4

[limelect 48]

I did not know where to write my experience so here it is

 

I downloaded Delphi Community Edition 10.4.2 for evaluation.
Now I work with 10.2.3
I manly downloaded it for the Android work.
I have an application that works on phones under S21.
In Galaxy S21 it does not work so I wanted to
compile and install it with 10.4.
So for my experience which was awful.

 

First, I compiled a form button and label and saw
that it works.
Next, I made a virtual phone that I spent hours installing
until I got to the point that it load but have a black screen.
I abandoned the task and went to the evaluation on my phone s21.
I took my source  (worked with D10.2.3 ) loaded it into the 10.4 application.
some files are needed. to be included in the search path. So I looked into the Delphi option
to find that there is no global search for files.
Left that.
Go to the project option and put the files directory there.
To my amazement no matter what I did Delphi did not find
the files.
I ended adding the files into the project!!!
With a lot of work I compiled.
A new problem icons error. why? 
So I ended up doing the next thing. Made a new form
and project with the same name I needed and copied all my files
to that project.
Now it compile and loaded to my phone.
Remember I do not have a virtual phone black screen.

Ok now for the worst experience.
My Android program gets stuck on the splash screen.
So next debug.
On form create to see what is going on.
Break. See with cntr F7 information.Nothing.An error within F7.
Great.
Next run with F8. Well, this is the best.
On each F8 it compiles again.

What do you think guys? Should I buy such a product?
 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by limelect

[FPiette 383]

Evaluating old versions is useless. Before deciding, do your evaluation with Delphi 11 trial (Free for 30 days. Trial <> community edition).

[limelect 48]

Let me clarify some things.

First, I love Delphi. I am with it since #1

Yes, I am grown by now.

For windows, it is a great product.

However, for Android it is bad.

Huge application size.

I love its IDE.

I have been working with Android Studio and I hate its IDE

However small application size and it works without a glitch.

No matter which phone I take it works.

Its software language (java) is fairly complicated. Not the java itself.

Java is  OK but its use for Android development is complicated.

But compere to Delphi it works without any problem.

 

I which Embarcdero takes some of us, users, into consideration

and thinks of the future if they want to keep existing.

[limelect 48]

6 minutes ago, FPiette said:

Evaluating old versions is useless. Before deciding, do your evaluation with Delphi 11 trial (Free for 30 days. Trial <> community edition).

No, sorry to say that what you think is that 10.4 is buggy that why we have 11?

Sorry, I do not agree. With all those software guys it should have been almost

good. I do not say that a big company is free of bugs.

But to have such a product (10.4) from Embarcadero is bad practice.

And they will not survive.

[David Schwartz 426]

We pay so-called "maintenance" fees to supposedly get bugs fixed. But when the maintenance runs out and then they say you need to renew it to get bugs fixed in the version you already paid for, it's unethical.

 

It makes the so-called "maintanance plan" nothing more than an annual license fee.

 

10.4.2 is reasonsbly nice but we should get a 10.4.3 that fixes the bugs introduced in 10.4.2, not forced to renew and then have to get D11 instead.

 

If I don't feel like upgrading for a couple of releases, that's ok, it costs the same either way. 

 

 

Since inline vars were introduced in 10.x, the refactoring stopped being useful. In 10.4.2, still not useful. But other new features were added. 

 

And in 10.4.2, when I use debug inspector and adjust width or the column splitter in the popup form, Delphi hangs. All you can do is kill it in Task Manager and restart it. This happens at least 50% of the time when I inspect variables while debugging. This should have been fixed a week after 10.4.2 shipped. Nope. I guess the problems with the web server stuff that only a fraction of customers use are more important than the debugger that freezes the IDE that everybody uses. PRIORITIES....

 

I also have a regular problem when looking at stringlists using the stringlist viewer. It throws repeated exceptions (via MadExcept) about some issue with a Boolean, and reloads the viewer many, many times. You have to close the exception box each time, and sometimes it just recurses so many times it's easier to just kill delphi and restart it. But other stuff was fixed with patches.

 

This crap was released under a maintenance plan. It should be fixed in a 10.4.x update, not requiring people to move to a newer version for resolution subject to renewal of the maintenance plan.

 

I honestly don't want to move to D11 at this time. Just more new bugs to deal with. I WANT STABILITY!

 

I'm really tired of every new release fixing some old bugs that should have been fixed before, then adding new stuff and more bugs.

 

We NEVER get to a point of STABILITY with ANY release!!!

 

What we can count on is that there will be a major new release every fall that will stop the previous version dead in its tracks and force you to upgrade whether you want to or not just to get older bugs fixed.

 

If you have an end-of-the-line update before a new release (eg, 10.4.2), another one should be released to everybody that fixes outstanding bugs that makes it stable without requiring you upgrade to the next version.

 

Customers paying for "maintenance" deserve a STABLE UPDATE at the end of a line before upgrading to a whole new release.

Edited November 17, 2021 by David Schwartz

[dummzeuch 1505]

1 hour ago, FPiette said:

Evaluating old versions is useless. Before deciding, do your evaluation with Delphi 11 trial (Free for 30 days. Trial <> community edition).

Since the current Community Edition is 10.4, it definitely makes sense to evaluate it. Unless you plan to buy the Professional Edition, then it makes sense to evaluate Delphi 11, because that's what you will be getting.

[Dalija Prasnikar 1396]

12 minutes ago, David Schwartz said:

Customers paying for "maintenance" deserve a STABLE UPDATE at the end of a line before upgrading to a whole new release.

I agree with that.

 

Now, without going into whether Embarcadero is currently giving stable updates or not at the end of the line... In reality stability is possible only on Windows and Linux platforms because those platforms are stable enough. And even on Windows there will be issues in releases when major Windows version changes or some larger feature is introduced. Not all such compatibility issues can be easily backported without making breaking interface changes.

 

On Android, iOS and macOS situation is completely different. New major OS versions are released on yearly basis, breaking havoc in both backward compatibility and ability to run applications on new OS versions. Often even building applications with new tools required will be broken. Porting back is often mission impossible. Delphi IDE is highly integrated environment and you cannot just easily swap and update only some parts that are broken. 

 

For those fast moving platforms only viable option is moving forward, having active subscription and participating in beta testing when it is publicly available. Or using other toolsets if Delphi does not fit well for certain use cases.

[KenR 29]

Re iOS, macOS and Android. Beta versions of these are always available many months before they are made live which should give Embarcadero time to release an update. Instead of that, we are always behind and many times in the past are left unable to even upload to the platforms app stores.

[limelect 48]

@Dalija PrasnikarLet me point  a few things

In the old days, ver 7 was very stable and I am still happy to use it on some old projects.

As of today, 10.2.3 is very stable and I am glad to use it.

As for Android "Android Studio" give me a solution even with the old OS on the new phone.

I do not need to have the new update (although I do) to work on a new phone.

With Embarcadero I have to pay lots of $ and still not satisfied.

Android Studio is free. And works almost without a glitch.

After my experience with D.4.2 I will definitely not evaluate

11 (maybe I will change my mind) to be sure that the product is not perfect.

I do not expect 100% as we are all in the software business and we know what is all about.

But to have a bad product like D4.2 is totally unacceptable.

Edited November 17, 2021 by limelect

[Dalija Prasnikar 1396]

2 hours ago, KenR said:

Re iOS, macOS and Android. Beta versions of these are always available many months before they are made live which should give Embarcadero time to release an update. Instead of that, we are always behind and many times in the past are left unable to even upload to the platforms app stores.

That helps with future releases, it doesn't help for backporting changes to existing release. I am not saying that it makes it impossible, but it depends on the actual problems. There were similar fixes done in the past when it was possible to fix parts of the toolset. 

I also know for sure that sometimes some issues occur in late beta stages when Apple (usually there is more problems with iOS and macOS) reorganizes something that does not have direct impact on native toolset users, but it breaks 3rd party ones.

[Dalija Prasnikar 1396]

2 hours ago, limelect said:

@Dalija PrasnikarLet me point  a few things

In the old days, ver 7 was very stable and I am still happy to use it on some old projects.

As of today, 10.2.3 is very stable and I am glad to use it.

We all use what works for us. I used Delphi 7 for a long time. 

2 hours ago, limelect said:

As for Android "Android Studio" give me a solution even with the old OS on the new phone.

I do not need to have the new update (although I do) to work on a new phone.

You cannot directly compare Android Studio and Delphi. In Android Studio, different parts of the whole toolset are more pluggable and exchangeable. In Delphi main problem is that IDE and core frameworks are firmly tied together. Because changes in platforms often require changes in frameworks - RTL and FMX, they cannot be patched unless changes are limited to implementation parts of the units. So you cannot use one version of the IDE with other version of the frameworks. Also debugger and compiler, are more tied with the rest of the toolset (even though more easily "patchable") than this is the case with Android Studio.

2 hours ago, limelect said:

With Embarcadero I have to pay lots of $ and still not satisfied.

Android Studio is free. And works almost without a glitch.

After my experience with D.4.2 I will definitely not evaluate

11 (maybe I will change my mind) to be sure that the product is not perfect.

I do not expect 100% as we are all in the software business and we know what is all about.

But to have a bad product like D4.2 is totally unacceptable.

Again, without going into specific issues which may be more or less problematic depending on your code, but if you want to develop and release applications for non Windows platforms, you need paid version with subscription. Whether this is an option or not, everyone needs to decide for themselves. Only you know what are the upsides and downsides in your case. Nobody else can make that decision for you. 

 

I wish Delphi would be better option and would have less issues, but that does not depend on me or any of us here.

[David Schwartz 426]

20 hours ago, Dalija Prasnikar said:

I agree with that.

 

Now, without going into whether Embarcadero is currently giving stable updates or not at the end of the line... In reality stability is possible only on Windows and Linux platforms

I was mainly referring to the Delphi IDE, which only runs under Windows. The other stuff from Embt doesn't interest me. They can't deliver a stable IDE in Windows; I certainly don't trust that their cross-platform tools are any better. Not hitching my wagon to them. No thanks!

 

Personally, I'm far more interested in using something like TMS WebCore for cross-platform development than native tools at this point, mainly because I've been watching how slowly Delphi as been getting updated and the inevitable bugs that show up after any major changes. TMS is way more responsive, and javascript seems to be far more stable running in all web browsers than trying to keep up with every update of mobile operating environments.

 

Yes, it might be a bit more limited, but I'd rather invest in a more stable and consistent UX/UI than constantly dealing with what Delphi's native platforms offer. 

 

There was a point in my life where I *LOVED* working with beta copies of software and chasing down weird issues, but not any longer. I want to just get in, get something done, and move on. I guess I have come to value getting stuff out of my head as fast as possible without having to take a bunch of detours to deal with potholes in the road. My memory is getting flakey, I have trouble remembering names of things, and each of those detours takes me longer to regain focus when I get back to where I was.