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Erix A.

My first Delphi 10.3 impressions

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- IDE is slower than 10.2.3. For example, you can see how Project/Options window is being drawn while opening. 
- If you set the dark mode, then you can see how options window is first drawn white and then skinned.
- Code scrolling in the editor seems bit slower.
- When app is run and the closed, lots of windows resizing, flickering is going on while the IDE goes from Debug to Default layout. (The same is happening in 10.2.3 as well, only it does it much faster).
- Sometimes after couple of runs Object inspector is not drawn at all until you refresh it.
- 1st full recompile of the project took about 12 seconds
- 2nd full recompile 40 seconds
- 3rd full recompile minute and something
- 4th one is still running (joke)
- After couple of recompiles, the whole IDE just blurs in the background, compiler gets stuck, and then after some time everything resumes.
- Code completion still isn't working in my project (It works after the 1st compile, then stops until project is cleaned). I reported it to QC and even got some response in the item, but then it stopped. 

 

When I turned the skinning off, IDE become more responsive, but some of the tool bars are drawn with non default background and when I hover over the tool bar buttons, the background for them becomes black.

 

I'm kinda sad. Usually I install the new Delphi and very soon uninstall the previous one, as the new one is just better. Not this time 😞

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5 minutes ago, Attila Kovacs said:

disable themes and dump modernthemexxx.bpl

Thanks for the tip 🙂 Looks uglier than 10.2.3, but at least it's usable.

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18 hours ago, Erix A. said:

- IDE is slower than 10.2.3. For example, you can see how Project/Options window is being drawn while opening. 
- If you set the dark mode, then you can see how options window is first drawn white and then skinned.
- Code scrolling in the editor seems bit slower.
- When app is run and the closed, lots of windows resizing, flickering is going on while the IDE goes from Debug to Default layout. (The same is happening in 10.2.3 as well, only it does it much faster).
- Sometimes after couple of runs Object inspector is not drawn at all until you refresh it.
- 1st full recompile of the project took about 12 seconds
- 2nd full recompile 40 seconds
- 3rd full recompile minute and something
- 4th one is still running (joke)
- After couple of recompiles, the whole IDE just blurs in the background, compiler gets stuck, and then after some time everything resumes.
- Code completion still isn't working in my project (It works after the 1st compile, then stops until project is cleaned). I reported it to QC and even got some response in the item, but then it stopped. 

 

When I turned the skinning off, IDE become more responsive, but some of the tool bars are drawn with non default background and when I hover over the tool bar buttons, the background for them becomes black.

 

I'm kinda sad. Usually I install the new Delphi and very soon uninstall the previous one, as the new one is just better. Not this time 😞

Your opening comment is very disappointing, given that my first impression of 10.2.3 is that the IDE is slow and flickers obnoxiously.

I'm not a fan of themes, so the "solution" is one I can welcome. Is the IDE now perhaps all done with DevExpress controls with skinning? (Just asking...)

Successively longer compile times is another disappointment, but having spent weeks now in moving legacy code into XE7 -- where it cannot build, except through the external build process -- has mad me much more sensitive to the numerous defects in the IDE. And I have turned off almost everything that in interactive in the IDE, in the hope of reducing the problem.

 

I will mention, however, that some of your comments lead me to wonder whether your project is free of unit dependency cycles. Mine is not, and I know too well that those cycles lead to many problems. The "stuck" compiler is one of the symptoms I have seen. 

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10 minutes ago, Bill Meyer said:

whether your project is free of unit dependency cycles. Mine is not, and I know too well that those cycles lead to many problems. The "stuck" compiler is one of the symptoms I have seen. 

That indeed has a high impact. My projects are usually free from dependency cycles, but I cannot do much about third party libraries there. Nevertheless can I rarely see problems with Code Insight here. Also compiling is blazing fast and even a full build does not last much longer.

 

In heavy contrast to a customer project I am just working on, where a Ctrl-Click needs seconds to minutes to return and code completion is more of a hindrance than of help. Also I have to re-build the whole project when I make a small change to the interface part of most of the units, because a simple compile won't succeed due to the cycles.

 

I encourage everyone to eliminate those cycles as soon as possible. They cost you a huge amount of your time.

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41 minutes ago, Uwe Raabe said:

I encourage everyone to eliminate those cycles as soon as possible. They cost you a huge amount of your time.

I agree completely. That said, they require significant work to remove. And though MMX can present reports on the problem, I am still looking for anything which can simplify the task of identifying the worst offenders. (Yes, it matters, as the full report is a bit overwhelming in this case.)

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2 hours ago, Uwe Raabe said:

where a Ctrl-Click needs seconds to minutes to return

Right, so a real project does that because it was put together RAD style where code reuse is king.

Wasn't the motto on the Delphi 2 box/sleeve: Encapsulate and Reuse..

 

Reminds me of my favorite solutions:

  • Reinstall Windows
  • Recreate the dproj file
  • Recreate the Whole Project
  • Rewrite using loose coupling so CodeInsight even comes up
  • ErrorInsight, 'Don't use that'..
  • Reinstall the IDE

How come Andy could fix a good chunk of that without source and for free with IDE Fix Pack?

 

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Not sure if that is a RAD thing. It is more a mixture of convenience and shortsightedness. Finding a clean and proper architecture is not an easy task. Often these projects are a result of short time and pressure and the lack of getting things right in the second go.

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13 minutes ago, Uwe Raabe said:

It is more a mixture of convenience and shortsightedness.

 

Normally I just leave things as they are because pushing a string gets really boring.
 

But in this case I'd like to clear a couple of things up, perhaps I'm not grasping the 'whole'..

  • Other than a few milliseconds lost by the compiler, is there any penalty in the final code?
    Because I can't time it, I have spent a bit of effort on that and I see no issues.
  • If that is the case then this whole cyclical issue falls right along with using 'with' doesn't it ?
    I mean try and get a DX based project out the door without using 'with'..
  • We can't really have interface cyclical units because the compiler barks, yet we can't have implementation cyclical units because of CodeInsight?
    What came first cyclical re-engineering cult or CodeInsight not working?

 

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If you call it cyclical re-engineering cult, so then. I simply see it as a way to make things work smoothly for me. I see that time I invest here pays back pretty soon and thus is well spent, at least better than constantly lamenting over CodeInsight not working.  Changing the compiler or CodeInsight itself is out of my reach and I am not going to wait for others to do so.

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15 minutes ago, Uwe Raabe said:

I simply see it as a way to make things work smoothly for me

 

Fair enough, of course Berlin works fine, at least after implementing a 'Clean' strategy I stumbled upon.
 

 

Edited by FredS

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17 hours ago, Uwe Raabe said:

I encourage everyone to eliminate those cycles as soon as possible. They cost you a huge amount of your time.

It would be nice, if compiler/code completion/error insight/whatever is failing because of this gave a warning about this.

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On 11/23/2018 at 12:43 PM, Erix A. said:

IDE is slower than 10.2.3.

 

That whole scenario becomes unusable if you RDP into a VM.. essentially they broke something that was working instead of fixing stuff that's been broken for years..

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Please fix IDE bugs!
 
We have new icons
 
Please fix IDE bugs!
 
There is barely working dark theme
 
Please fix IDE bugs!!!
 

Now light IDE theme is broken too.

 

I don't mind UI improvements, but IMO this were the wrong ones. I should probably say - I would not have anything against visual UI changes as long as they work properly. Visual changes are (should be) easier to implement than fixing some deeper IDE issues. But, currently IDE is falling apart left and right. Just because it looks better (depending on how you define better - my eyes cannot stand bluish theme for more than 10 minutes) it does not mean that it works better or is more usable.

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For me one of the biggest problems in the new UI/UX issue with the tabs being wider (leaving less room for tabs) AND the "X" to close a tab is only visible on the active tab, so I'm occasionally closing tabs when trying to switch to them.

 

Sure, I can get used to it, but this is an esthetic choice over a utilitarian chose when working in an environment to develops utilities... does that feel right to you?

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Most of these issues were reported during the beta phase, so it must be an issue of priorities and they didn't feel that these bugs were worth holding up the release. It sure makes me think that the future of software development is to use open-source tools so that the community can have a role in the development. I know this is becoming the norm in many other communities. Microsoft is making big strides in this area.

 

Maybe it's time for me to revisit Lazarus/Open Pascal.

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44 minutes ago, DelphiMT said:

Most of these issues were reported during the beta phase

 

Same as before..

 

I see a bunch of bugs that occur on every first release of a new version, so no way is any of that run through any kind of testing.

 

  • Throughout the year bugs reported outstrip bugs solved by anywhere from 5-8:1
  • As was explained by another poster, we don't know the actual bugs on the internal system. Yet have become Alpha testers for new releases. Obediently posting bugs that where posted before because of internal testing failure.
  • With the CE edition new releases are quickly evaluated and bugs are reported, my bet is that by the 30 day mark we will be close to equal on this chart: 30 Day Summary
  • The thing is, there are some brilliant Delphi users, and when your read some of those Quality Central reports they come with ways to reproduce and in some cases needed code changes.. yet aren't implemented, sometimes for years..

Draw your own conclusion, your mileage may vary..

 

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On 11/24/2018 at 7:00 PM, Uwe Raabe said:

I encourage everyone to eliminate those cycles as soon as possible. They cost you a huge amount of your time.

Not advocating dependency cycles but sometimes these are justified.

For example when a big subsystem is separated to several units. These units will probably need each other as it's still a single subsystem and there is no higher level grouping for units with appropriate visibility rules.

And of course it's not a reason for any of IDE features not to work.

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