Unfixed bug in Sydney

[aehimself 396]

@emailx45

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by aehimself

[Guest]

Little kid, you're Level-down!  

what will be the next meme! 😂  

[Guest]

@Darian Miller I am not starting useless debate here but trying putting some equilibrium on biased point of view, that everyone not applauding is an enemy, no enemy here.

 

I merely pointed that Fred and Boian are eligible for compensating for there loses, everyone (including companies) should be responsible for any damage they cause intended or not, this what make society fair and civilized.

That was the short answer.

 

About you comments, you Darian Miller are very smart guy yet you intentionally want to go against what is right, and close eyes on facts and see thing from different angle, and you have the right to do that.

34 minutes ago, Darian Miller said:

Sorry, but that is pretty weak as every piece of software has bugs.  If you mentioned, say, RSP-9678 Delphi IDE is not DPI aware (from 2014 with 93 votes) then it may have been stronger.  Or maybe RSP-17724 Linux x64 compiler produce very bloated code.  Or perhaps this thread:

Don't you think that there is a list of long standing bugs is wide eye opener, but i was talking about this one in particular the topic in this thread, first i don't know how Boian managed to use inline vars in lets say Delphi 2010 !, because his is 3rdpary providers, found it hard to believe he just went and used inline vars only for 10.4 and can't reverse it in the same time, is that a paradox, or wrong the bug is not identified yet?

38 minutes ago, Darian Miller said:

Again, that's not an overly strong argument.  How many one liner changes have you had to chase for hours on end, that may have not have revealed themselves as a problem for months?  The key point here is tests.

Who should do these tests Fred or Boian or the guy who do things without even the competency to speculate it or even fix it, so let it pickle for few years, don't you think Embarcadero should issue an alerts for their users (even for oldest) on what is broken and should not be trusted, so innocent people don't lose money.

 

39 minutes ago, Darian Miller said:

So you can put bugs in your code, or hair on your burgers which you serve, but they aren't allowed?

I am the one who supposed to be fed according to payment contract and they added the hair, i allowed feed myself hair, but you missed the point, every kitchen (not talking about personal one at home) the public kitchen which serve people in bulk should follow strong health and hygiene practices, and this believe it or not is protected and watched by every law out there in every country, so are you allowed compromise people health with consequences ? or fraud people with faulty non working products?

If i made a burger for myself, then no one has anything to say to me, there is social and health consultant also shrinks has such job to educate me, but if i am going to sell what compromise other people lives then there is laws, it is morally and ethically unaccepted to do that knowingly, while laws from social contracts enforce protection safety for all, or may be just compensating.

44 minutes ago, Darian Miller said:

I believe the major issue here is lack of tests.  The main way to gain more confidence in the Delphi platform is by trumpeting, marketing, glorifying their major gains in testing over the last few years (which assumedly has been the case.)  Likely one of their most dominant product features is backwards compatibility - that very valuable feature can only be assured with a huge amount of manual effort, or a very large amount of tests.  Likely one of their most harshest points of criticism lately is new code is not up to the quality of old code.  That also can and should be braced with an adequate amount of tests.

What trumpeting for confidence has to do with loss of money, time and clients ? we are talking damages happened and is happening while they want to sell more licenses.

My last order was Seattle and it wasn't a subscription, and what a surprise the 64 bit compiler was faulty, in a month or two (i don't recall), a fix called BetaFix released and big update with hundreds of bugs was released, i couldn't download the bugs fix, but at least i got the compiler betafix which till this moment i can trust it is full fix !

Or may you are saying if they got more money from us, things will become better ? how by paying the same guys an overtime ? 

 

58 minutes ago, Darian Miller said:

Yes, we should be able to trust the compiler, but how about using Microsoft as an example...  They have one of the largest R&D budgets in the world and they still ship very questionable software.  If they came out with Visual Studio 2021 today, would you immediately migrate all your source code to it, after changing it in thousands of places to use one of the VS 2021's newest language features, and then quickly ship your product to all of your customers with a large amount of memory leaks?  Would you be out there stating that Microsoft shouldn't be able to sleep at night, or would you be rolling back your changes and provide a stable product again to your customers?

Microsoft doesn't hold anyone as hostage, they release previews mostly for long time for testing to everyone (FREE), Microsoft provide you with all the bug fix's for life per version, not few times per year, it is a fact every software has bugs, but should i pay for bug fix's, let me be clear here, i agree when there is license (contract) for such and i agreed to it, but don't agree if the bug since day one rendering the product useless.

And again for R&D, what R&D does have to for with basic functionality break, this called incompetency, so please lets not call it R&D, adding more money to R&D has nothing to do the result, keep throwing money and waiting long time on incompetent people in R&D is just waste of both, this is not the case here, we are talking about breaking what was working, this is happening and will happen as the same people still there, 

Bruneau Babet commented on that bug, he is compiler engineer, his word that this is not his part, and that is understandable, so why not bring the guy who is responsible there to comment and feel a little shame forgetting to put the right tests ?

 

1 hour ago, Darian Miller said:

I certainly don't like providing an excuse for buggy code, or lack of tests.  But this particular example is certainly not the hill to die on.  

I can't agree more on that, one thing though we are not on the hill, we are sliding fast in accelerated manner without breaks, i still can't imagine how they decided to go after new linker and visual assist instead of focusing on making LSP work right, and i know the question for that, they have different people with different responsibility, but don't you think something can be done ?

[Darian Miller 361]

3 hours ago, Kas Ob. said:

@Darian Miller I am not starting useless debate here but trying putting some equilibrium on biased point of view, that everyone not applauding is an enemy, no enemy here.

 

I merely pointed that Fred and Boian are eligible for compensating for there loses, everyone (including companies) should be responsible for any damage they cause intended or not, this what make society fair and civilized.

That was the short answer.

 

 

My main point was making a case that this particular bug does not really warrant the noise.  There are many other examples that you could use, and would probably garner more support.   I like inline variables, and they work rather well.  However, Boian stumbled across a particular set of circumstances which consistently leads to memory leaks which assumedly would have been obvious is he ran a memory leak checker before releasing his code.  The simple reproducible case was posted in September.  As in my hypothetical example, if it was a new language feature in VS2021 just released and you moved all your code to use it...you would not, could not, would ever expect to get an immediate fix from Microsoft so you should provide the same courtesy to Embarcadero and not demand "fair and civilized" compensation for this issue.  Instead, argue for bugs that are more than 3 months old and it would be much more beneficial.  And/or argue for more unit tests on the RTL, and demand they be made public.

 

Embarcadero has acknowledged a quality issue.  They have attempted to attack it in the last few releases and planned to do even more in the next release.  Expecting them to immediately fix a new bug when there are plenty of bugs which are years old and affect much, much more code is just the wrong approach in my opinion.

 

I fully support the general argument being made, but just not this specific issue.

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by Darian Miller

[Guest]

@Darian Miller I putting two things to summarize all of this discuss, and not commenting anymore hoping my point of view is clear, 

 

1) The model of product deployment by Embarcadero force you to go with the latest version as they do not fixing any old ones, this means we (not really me, though i wish i can afford it or justify the update), forced to update and face the new bugs that are silently introduced, so for this particular case, Embarcadero should notify each and every user that the inline var is untrusted in some case, that what morally responsible business do, second thing is they should work on this by either learn a lesson (repeated every release), which i think it is futile at this time or rethink how they conduct business in general and developing in specific, people should let go, the incompetent ones to restore faith in Delphi, not by marketing and few adding features that they do break by chance.

 

2) If your point to just weakening Fred argument to be dissatisfied, then please rephrase your point, as an MVP (which congratulations by the way) i am asking you to either make it clear Fred is wrong, and Boian should compensate him or Embarcadero should, i merely supported him.

 

In all i am done with this, wishing a nice new year week to everyone.

[Attila Kovacs 629]

15 minutes ago, Kas Ob. said:

The model of product deployment by Embarcadero force you to go with the latest version as they do not fixing any old ones

Ahm. No? You can always get out and stick with one particular release for decades.

Edited December 30, 2020 by Attila Kovacs

[Stano 143]

And every night go to sleep with disturbed nerves

[Guest]

now, im seeing Big-Child chat-chat!

this is really good for us!

thanks for all

Edited December 30, 2020 by Guest