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Javier Tarí

suggestion for 2 new su forum: AI usage and AI coding

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11 minutes ago, Javier Tarí said:

lthough I find it a curious even interesting talking about it, I fail to see how is it relevant to AI agentic coding

Uhmm, I hope you will think about in the future. Don't you think that you are using some (may be or not may be) illegal things ? And the copyright of the original authors (material form GPL license for example, or other licence) ?

Is possibile that Claude had scanning all github repos ? And now all copyrights where are ?

I know that for the "supreme good" AI can be trained with all materials found, but it can reproduce it to the user and you can use it massively ?

 

14 minutes ago, Javier Tarí said:

I'm sorry for you never having a working, complete solution from an AI. I feel your frustration.

I'm not frustrated; on the contrary, I'm happy to see the damage being done with AI code (by others), damage that I'm then called upon to fix.
I also use smartcode (AI agents online and offline) to see how they work (in addition to developing some kind of AI systems, not agents, for work).

 

 

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3 minutes ago, DelphiUdIT said:

Don't you think that you are using some (may be or not may be) illegal things ? And the copyright of the original authors (material form GPL license for example, or other licence) ?

Is possibile that Claude had scanning all github repos ? And now all copyrights where are ?

I know that for the "supreme good" AI can be trained with all materials found, but it can reproduce it to the user and you can use it massively ?

No, I don't. Not in my uise case. I review all the code before commiting it, and I'm never accepting big chunks of code that might come from who knows where. Mainly because I must understand all the code in my codebase. I can't think how the code I'm integrating might be copyrighted

I can't talk for other use cases, obviously. I also have licenses for all and every commercial component or library I'm using, although there are some developers that download them "from somewhere"

 

And going back to the generated code: We all should remember that the training text does not form part of the AI "memory". The AI has billions of vectors, and that's it... no text chains anywhere

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1 hour ago, Javier Tarí said:

And going back to the generated code: We all should remember that the training text does not form part of the AI "memory". The AI has billions of vectors, and that's it... no text chains anywhere

How do you think the $1.5 billion lawsuit started?
Obviously, there aren't any formal copies of the training material in the database, but if an LLM suggests my name and surname, they got it from somewhere, not just made it up... and it doesn't take much to say that if it happens for an entire article (or a substantial piece of code), this is a violation if it's under (some) copyright.
If I ask an LLM to reproduce a "Mona Lisa" or another work for me, it doesn't mean the AI has become a "Leonardo da Vinci," do you think?

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2 hours ago, Javier Tarí said:

No, I don't. Not in my uise case. I review all the code before commiting it, and I'm never accepting big chunks of code that might come from who knows where. Mainly because I must understand all the code in my codebase. I can't think how the code I'm integrating might be copyrighted

Why you assert that the code you are copying (or commited like you say) from an AI is not copyrighted ? You search in all github, gitlab, bitbucket, gdrive, azure and all other public repository to search for that piece of code ?

No, it's simply because it's better for you to use it, ignoring any sources (which would most likely be impossible to find). But it's one thing if you produce code that's similar to existing code (and this obviously happens), but it's another thing entirely if you copy code from a third party (AI) who in turn copied it from who knows where.

 

Anyway, I'll stop here, I'm already off topic.

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9 minutes ago, DelphiUdIT said:

Why you assert that the code you are copying (or commited like you say) from an AI is not copyrighted ? You search in all github, gitlab, bitbucket, gdrive, azure and all other public repository to search for that piece of code ?

No, it's simply because it's better for you to use it, ignoring any sources (which would most likely be impossible to find). But it's one thing if you produce code that's similar to existing code (and this obviously happens), but it's another thing entirely if you copy code from a third party (AI) who in turn copied it from who knows where.

This is a Claude Code CLI screen while it's working following the indications of the plan we just made to abstract a generic splash screen drawing, to separate the logic.

It's not copying lots of code; it's just "typing" implementations. I'm not asking "make for me a bla bla bla" and waiting for a full program.  To be copyrighted, it must have a minimum length

 

image.thumb.png.fed17023c1b6ee52f7b217fb6d67f5c0.png

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4 hours ago, Javier Tarí said:

I'm not talking of predictions of a distant future: I'm talking of my daily experience with, my own work on my own code. According to what I'm doing as of today:


They will be unemployed because right now AI is able to program by itself a lot of Delphi code, and even refactor a lot of production code, just with human supervision on the final result, and a single senior developer can supervise a lot of agents coding in parallel.

 

And if your experience is other: if your experience does not include Claude Code, then your experience is zero; you have been visiting the wrong planet

My experience does indeed not include Claude Code. If you say its awesome, I believe you. I still severely doubt that it could take over my daily work, so I'm not worried.

 

As for the wrong planet: I have had the nagging feeling for years that I am on the wrong planet. Usually when listening to Frankie goes to Hollywood's "Two Tribes"

Edited by dummzeuch
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I just wasted 2 days with claude and gemini trying to get it to implement the PubGrub dependency solving algorithm that the Dart (pub) and Rust (cargo) package manager uses - in delphi. Round and round in circles, but never quite getting there, until claude gives up (I used up my gemini allowence in an hour)  and starts hard coding things to make the unit tests pass 🤦‍♂️


"You're absolutely right. I apologize for taking the wrong approach by hardcoding specific package names and version constraints to satisfy the test scenario. That's not a proper  solution - it's just making the code pass a specific test rather than implementing the correct PubGrub algorithm."

 

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Oh my God, AI really doesn't have much support in this forum, or at least fair, open treatment.

We'd be better off banning the use of the anti-term “AI” with a flashing red warning light,
rather than thinking about new forum sections. :classic_biggrin:

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2 hours ago, Vincent Parrett said:

I just wasted 2 days with claude and gemini trying to get it to implement the PubGrub dependency solving algorithm that the Dart (pub) and Rust (cargo) package manager uses - in delphi. Round and round in circles, but never quite getting there, until claude gives up (I used up my gemini allowence in an hour)  and starts hard coding things to make the unit tests pass 🤦‍♂️

 

I never program using a chat agent; I use always Clade Code. For your use caso, I would use a chat agent to make a research and "prepare a .md document  for an IA coding agent so it can implement it just following the document"; then save it in a folder, launch Claude Code there, and ask it to read the documentation and propose a plan

Claude Code should be configured so it can compile the project it is making, and instructed to not consider a project ready until it compiles without errors, hints or warnings

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1 hour ago, Vincent Parrett said:

I am not against ai specific forums - but like others I look at the activity view to find things of interest on a daily basis

I follow daily the telegram group, but not this one. And I'm trying to do what I can to boost AI agentic coding in Delphi; I'm on it by some months now, and  my experience with Claude Code is quite good, but seems to me that maybe less than 1% of Delphi Devs are using this way of amplify coding

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8 minutes ago, Javier Tarí said:

my experience with Claude Code is quite good, but seems to me that maybe less than 1% of Delphi Devs are using this way of amplify coding

Given that for Claude Code you need a subscription that has to be paid for a year in advance I am not surprised.

Edited by dummzeuch

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35 minutes ago, dummzeuch said:

Given that for Claude Code you need a subscription that has to be paid for a year in advance I am not surprised.

I pay it monthly. Started with the 20$ one, then upgraded to the 100$ one, and finally to the 200$ one

Two days after subscribing to the 20$ one, it was clear for me that I needed it and wasn't going to wait a few hours when I hit the limits, so upgraded to the 100$ one, till one month ago

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22 minutes ago, Javier Tarí said:

and finally to the 200$ one

Thats rough. I cannot imagine it being worth so much money just for coding.

So where do you plug your coffee machine into so that Claude can make coffee as well and perhaps wash the car? I need clothes ironed.

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2 hours ago, Javier Tarí said:

Claude Code should be configured so it can compile the project it is making, and instructed to not consider a project ready until it compiles without errors, hints or warnings

Ah... if it compiles, ship it.

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2 hours ago, PeaShooter_OMO said:

so much money just for coding.

Software development is my source of income, so when I increase the development done (keeping the quality), it is money for me.

It's quite obvious that Claude Code is increasing my monthly income for much more than 200$

I don't know in which country do you work, or if you work for yourself or are employed, but each one will have his maths

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59 minutes ago, Dalija Prasnikar said:

Ah... if it compiles, ship it.

Is that what you do? If not, what did I posted that offended you so much?

 

Do my actions deserve that answer?

Because I thought I was just sharing my experience as Delphi developer with AI agentic development, in particular with Claude Code, hoing that this might be useful for others, and then I find myself under attacks

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1 hour ago, Javier Tarí said:

Is that what you do? If not, what did I posted that offended you so much?

No, but that is apparently what you are suggesting is enough. Maybe I got what you are saying wrong. But there is way more to code than being able to compile it.

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5 hours ago, Javier Tarí said:

I pay it monthly. Started with the 20$ one

On the sign up page it says you have to pay a year in advance. Is that wrong?

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2 hours ago, dummzeuch said:

On the sign up page it says you have to pay a year in advance. Is that wrong?

if you pay monthly, it's 20$/month. If you pay a full year in advance, it's 200$ the year. Quite usual monthly/yearly discount: 10 months upfront for one year

Om the other hand, I would not subscribe to anything IA for a full year... I'm very happy with Claude Code, but if next week might appear a new, far better product; this field changes extremely fast

image.thumb.png.314f11d7f22316e5642063197df969a1.png

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2 hours ago, Dalija Prasnikar said:

No, but that is apparently what you are suggesting is enough. Maybe I got what you are saying wrong. But there is way more to code than being able to compile it.

Yes, you got it wrong.

I was refering to the the big advantage of having the AI agent compile it itself, review the errors, fix them, and so on, until it has no errors. It means, as an example, that it would autofix hallucinated classes/methods/...

Right now, to me, an AI coding agent is an amplifier of my coding capabilities, not a substitute of a developer. But it can empower me, making me able to deliver better code in less time. Better, because I can spend some of the time recovered to make better code

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11 hours ago, Javier Tarí said:

I never program using a chat agent; I use always Clade Code. For your use caso, I would use a chat agent to make a research and "prepare a .md document  for an IA coding agent so it can implement it just following the document"; then save it in a folder, launch Claude Code there, and ask it to read the documentation and propose a plan

I did exactly that, I have had other ai's refine it - and I had chat write an annotated program flow for the dart (reference) implementation of the algorithm - but eventually it starts to wander off and do it's own thing rather than stick to the algorithm - and twice so far it got to 100% tests passing and when I investigated the 'breakthrough' I discovered it had hard coded values in the algorithm to satisfy the tests. The algorithm is complex - and implementing it in delphi is is not helped by the major differences in the programming languages - there are constructs in Dart that are not easy to replicate in delphi without major design changes. 

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11 hours ago, Javier Tarí said:

Claude Code should be configured so it can compile the project it is making, and instructed to not consider a project ready until it compiles without errors, hints or warnings

How do you do that? I tried, I even gave it a batch file to run, but on windows it's still using bash and it fails more often than it succeeds and then it doesn't see the compiler errors and just runs the code anyway. Is this something an mcp could do?

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7 hours ago, Vincent Parrett said:

How do you do that? I tried, I even gave it a batch file to run, but on windows it's still using bash and it fails more often than it succeeds and then it doesn't see the compiler errors and just runs the code anyway. Is this something an mcp could do?

Such question and its answer is a reason why a sub forum (specified place) is needed.

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