10.4.1 Update

[bazzer747 25]

Hi,

I see Embarcadero have released 10.4.1.

I'm especially happy they are fixing problems found in prior versions, more so than any 'new' features. However, yet again they say you need a total uninstall and reinstall for this update.

What I don't understand is why a full uninstall is necessary for a 'minor' release. This isn't 10 to 11, or even 10.4 to 10.5 - this is one level further - 10.4 to 10.4.1!

 

A full install causes me all sorts of issues. I have a few add ons which I I have to wait on other companies to provide their own updates to the new version which can take weeks. Recall the problems with the Konopka VCL components when 10.4 arrived, it was a couple of weeks before they provided and updated set in GetIt and that component suite is owned by Embarcadero! Even Ray Konopka couldn't understand why this happened. Some companies must have many more add-ons than I have and suffer more than I do with this issue?

 

Surely for a minor upgrade all that is needed is replacing the files that have changed, which can't be that many (being a minor upgrade)?

[Sherlock 663]

This is a tradition and traditions are not to be messed with. No matter how annoying the are.

[FPiette 383]

2 hours ago, bazzer747 said:

I have a few add ons which I I have to wait on other companies to provide their own updates to the new version

It is likely that those add-ons will work. I only use one and it works.

You could contact every add-on maker if their add-on works with 10.4.1.

 

To test, I suggest you first install 10.4.1 in a virtual machine and if everything is OK for you, then update your development machine.

If you cannot use a virtual machine, or a physical machine elsewhere, then do a full backup of your computer before updating. You'll be able to restore your backup. Much less convenient than a VM, I agree.

 

Or be optimist: install 10.4.1 and if you've got problem, reinstall previous version.

Please be aware that the number of installs you are allowed to do is limited! After to much install, you'll have to contact Embarcadero to ask them for more installations.

 

[bazzer747 25]

Traditions should be ditched if they don't provide a happy client base 🙂

 

When I went to 10.4 from 10.3 none of my add-ons worked and needed re-installs. I've contacted my vendors and asked this question, still awaiting their reply. My feeling is they will need an update, even though this is a minor upgrade. I hope for otherwise.

 

Yes, I'm installing on my other machine to see what's what.

[FPiette 383]

4 minutes ago, bazzer747 said:

When I went to 10.4 from 10.3 none of my add-ons worked and needed re-installs

Installing 10.4.1 involves an uninstall of 10.4. There are two options:

1) you uninstall 10.4 before installing 10.4.1

2) you run 10.4.1 installer which will uninstall 10.4, letting you the choice to keep your settings.

 

Maybe you used option 1.

 

[bazzer747 25]

No, I ran the installer letting it uninstall/reinstall keeping settings. The fact the add-on vendors needed to provide me with an update also meant they would not have worked using their previous installers.

 

Are you suggesting that any add-ons, which have been installed OK in 10.4, will work in 10.4.1? This I hope for and will see what happens when my 'test' install on my laptop completes.

[FPiette 383]

2 hours ago, bazzer747 said:

Are you suggesting that any add-ons, which have been installed OK in 10.4, will work in 10.4.1?

I would not say "any" but "most" 😉 

Which add-ons are you using?

 

[bazzer747 25]

eDocEngine and Ace Reporter

I see the Konopka VCL components install OK via Getit.

[FPiette 383]

1 hour ago, bazzer747 said:

eDocEngine and Ace Reporter

Those are components, not add-ons.

 

[bazzer747 25]

That's a bit pedantic. Ace Reporter is a suite of components as is eDocEngine, I accept, but these are the 'add-ons' I add on to my Delphi.

 

They are applications I add to my Delphi, and need installation routines to integrate them. Hence all my comments above.

 

So if you don't like my term add-on, please substitute with component suites.

[Darian Miller 361]

6 hours ago, bazzer747 said:

No, I ran the installer letting it uninstall/reinstall keeping settings. The fact the add-on vendors needed to provide me with an update also meant they would not have worked using their previous installers.

 

Are you suggesting that any add-ons, which have been installed OK in 10.4, will work in 10.4.1? This I hope for and will see what happens when my 'test' install on my laptop completes.

 

 

I started a rambling reply here and it started to get long, so I put it up on my blog as it's a common question: https://www.ideasawakened.com/post/about-binary-compatibility-on-new-versions-of-delphi

 

 

Note: if there any additions/corrections/clarifications needed, please let me know.

 

[FPiette 383]

@Darian Miller I your blog post, you said:

 

Quote

when buying a component, always buy the source code if there is an option to do so. Component vendors can come and go - if you have purchased the source code to the components, much of this pain is avoided as you can simply rebuild on the next major release of Delphi.

That is something I repeated so many times to so many people with one more advice: if source is not available, don't by that component.

 

And I often add this advice: never use prebuilt packages or dcu from 3rd party component, always rebuild everything, at least once to be sure you have everything required and know how to rebuild.

 

When you have several 3rd party component, create a project group with all projects required to rebuild all components, including your own component. Then when a new Delphi version comes, you can easily rebuild and reinstall everything within minutes. As you mentioned in your blog post:

Quote

If you have the source code to the components, then you can normally just rebuild them in the next major release without waiting on the component vendor to provide you with an update. (Although you may have to tweak the package project file or an include file to make it compatible with the new compiler/package version numbers, but that is normally a few minute job.)

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by FPiette

[FPiette 383]

9 hours ago, bazzer747 said:

So if you don't like my term add-on, please substitute with component suites.

@bazzer747 In my head, an add-on is some software which add new features to the IDE. For example MMX Code Explorer is an add-on. Something that is code (binary or source) that is intended to be included in your application is a library. A special form of library that can be installed in the component palette is named a component.

 

I think that what is in my head is present in many other heads 🙂

 

[Sherlock 663]

To distinguish between add-ons and components is like distinguishing between records and classes - a good thing to ease discussions with your peers.

[Lars Fosdal 1792]

It is slightly annoying that you have to manually reinstall GetIt component packages on an upgrade like this.

[FPiette 383]

42 minutes ago, Lars Fosdal said:

It is slightly annoying that you have to manually reinstall GetIt component packages on an upgrade like this.

Agreed.

 

[bazzer747 25]

Many thanks for the info, especially the blog by Darian, very clear explanation of why the 'problem' exists and why it won't go away soon. This is one of the reasons I find this forum so useful and view it regularly. My issues are minor in comparison to the larger world which uses Delphi on a more professional and deeper level than I ever will.

[luebbe 26]

Oh boy,

Installed 10.4.1, TMS Components, GExperts and TestInsight, dragged a .groupproj onto the IDE to install more components and the IDE crashes completely. So much for a "quality" update 😞

 

[FPiette 383]

6 minutes ago, luebbe said:

IDE crashes completely

Can you be a little bit more explicit?

Could you load the project one at a time to find out which one cause the crash?

[luebbe 26]

It looks like it has to do something with the desktop layout. When I load the Card Panel Demo from the start page I get an AV in rtl270.bpl. which shows TDesktopform.SaveDockClients in line 6-7.

Sometimes I don't get an A/V at all. The IDE just closes after showing the busy cursor.

 

"File->New VCL application" is enough to crash the IDE without error message.

 

It also crashes (with error message) when I switch from "start layout" to "standard layout" without trying to load anything. Then the crash is in Vcl.Themes.TStyleHook.WndProc

 

probably it's either GExperts or TestInsight which cause the problems. When I close their windows and save this as "Standard Layout", the A/Vs are gone and I "File-New VCL" seems to work. I'll investigate further.

Edited September 4, 2020 by luebbe

[dummzeuch 1505]

36 minutes ago, luebbe said:

Oh boy,

Installed 10.4.1, TMS Components, GExperts and TestInsight, dragged a .groupproj onto the IDE to install more components and the IDE crashes completely. So much for a "quality" update 😞

 

In my case, deleting a custom desktop layout which was automatically loaded for a project, solved that problem.

I then had to create that desktop layout again.

[luebbe 26]

But when I start with "New VCL project", which custom layout would that be?
I guess, I'll delete "Appdata\Roaming\ ... \Default Layout.dst" and start from scratch

[luebbe 26]

That's weird. The very moment when I save my standard layout, two, previously invisible windows pop up at the center of the screen: "GExperts grep results" (ok, but wasn't active) and "Keyboard Macro Library" (never used that).

[luebbe 26]

The IDE throws an A/V reliably in the following case:

- Place an IDE window (messages) on a secondary monitor

- Dock another window (TestInsight) onto the messages window

- Save this Desktop

- Restore this Desktop

This has never worked well (the coordinates of the window(s) on the secondary monitor were never restored correctly), but at least it didn't crash until 10.4.0.

[Anders Melander 1783]

10 minutes ago, luebbe said:

Dock another window (TestInsight) onto the messages window

I would suggest you do all these tests without 3rd party add-ons involved. It hard to know where to place the blame otherwise.