Buying a mini pc to install Delphi

[Alberto Paganini 3]

Hello,

 

I am thinking of buying a mini PC and installing Delphi CE. I chose the mini PC mainly because of its small footprint.

I am not a professional programmer, so I would not use it for 8+ hours every day. What do you recommend in terms of CPU, RAM, SDD size, etc.? Is it a good idea?

 

Many thanks

Alberto

[Tommi Prami 130]

7 hours ago, Alberto Paganini said:

Hello,

 

I am thinking of buying a mini PC and installing Delphi CE. I chose the mini PC mainly because of its small footprint.

I am not a professional programmer, so I would not use it for 8+ hours every day. What do you recommend in terms of CPU, RAM, SDD size, etc.? Is it a good idea?

 

Many thanks

Alberto

It depends quite a lot.

But would go for I have and budget of xxx in my currency, what I can get with it. Ask people opinions about that, is it enough. And then decide to save more or purchase.

I've been thinking of, if Company will get one, for my work computer.  Mainly because I need laptop as laptop (the screen) maybe once or twice a year. Also with price of decent laptop, you get way better mini-PC (in terms of performance etc...). Problem being, for corporate use, that there are no good options usually from popular brands, and brands that make good models don't have support and service options that companies need. I think... IF someone has better info, I would be more than happy to stand corrected on this...
 

-Tee- 

[dummzeuch 1505]

I am using a Fujitsu Esprimo Q920 (released in 2014!) with an i5 mobile processor, 16 GB of RAM and an SSD running Windows 10 for Delphi development (all versions from Delphi 6 -blindingly fast - to Delphi 12 - rather slow but usable). I bought it cheap in a refurbished deal on Amazon.de. It's far from being a rocket, but fine for my hobby software development needs.

 

I also installed Proxmox on a cheap mini PC with an Intel N95 processor, 16 GB of RAM and an SSD I got from Geekbuying (came with Windows 11). I am running a Windows 10 virtual machine on it on which I'm testing GExperts on Delphi 12. That setup is definitely not what I would want to use at work, but again, for hobby software development it is kinda OK. If you leave out the virtual machine part but run Windows directly on the hardware it is faster than the Q920.

 

So: Given enough RAM and an SSD I think basically any current mini PC is OK for that purpose. This may depend on whether you want to use some third party tools and components though. These can slow down the IDE quite a bit.

 

And of course you may think I'm crazy for using such a low powered setup. 😉

 

Regarding Geekbuying: Beware that that's a platform like Amazon market place. So there are black sheep there. I bought a BMAX mini PC with pre installed Windows 11 from them and it turned out that

• The pre installed Windows 11 came with some rather dubious software additions, so I tried to do a fresh install. Which turned up that ...
• the computer does not meet Windows 11 minimum requirements (no TPM, unsupported processor). They must have installed it using the tricks you can find on the web. Which means that it would have had problems with the next major update. But even with these tricks ...
• the license cannot be used to do a fresh Windows 11 installation.

I tried to get a refund but they kept on sending demands for proof (pictures and even a video using some Chinese service) and then simply ignored me. So I definitely don't recommend buying there. (The hardware is rather nice though, if you don't want to install Windows on it.)

Edited October 30 by dummzeuch

[Lars Fosdal 1790]

@dummzeuch - I think it is commendable to do your testing on a low powered setup.  If it works satisfactory there, it will rock on higher end gear.

[Sherlock 663]

@Lars Fosdal What good are developer machines that run faster than light, when the average customer has the software running on what can only be described as a steam powered abacus? To test on a low end machine is the minimum, IMHO.

[Angus Robertson 574]

But that low end testing may also be done in a virtual machine with minimal resources, at least for applications that don't need specific hardware resources.

 

I still have my ancient Windows 7 development PC that I mainly use for burning DVD off-site backups.  But also for some backward testing, don't power it up very often.

 

Angus

 

[Tom Chamberlain 47]

If your daily machine, PC or MAC has 16GB of RAM, is a multi-core CPU and has 100-150GB of free space go with a virtual machine.  There are free options like Hyper-V and VirtualBox even VMwares Workstation/Fusion is free for personal use.  Delphi will run in a VM with 4-6GB of RAM and a 2 cores, not speedy but it will run.   You can get a real copy of Windows 10/11 for cheap online and it's easy to backup with just a file copy.

[Anders Melander 1780]

23 minutes ago, Tom Chamberlain said:

go with a virtual machine

How does that address "I am thinking of buying a mini PC"?

[dummzeuch 1505]

3 minutes ago, Anders Melander said:

How does that address "I am thinking of buying a mini PC"?

The Mac Mini could qualify as a mini PC. But yeah it doesn't really answer the question.

[Anders Melander 1780]

14 hours ago, Alberto Paganini said:

I am thinking of buying a mini PC and installing Delphi CE. I chose the mini PC mainly because of its small footprint.

This might sound crazy, but hear me out 🙂

1. Buy:
   • A nice Mini-PC mainboard with integrated graphics.
   • A CPU, some RAM, NVMe SSD.
   • The smallest fanless PSU that meets the power requirements of the above.
2. Put it all in cardboard box (or whatever). Remember to make some holes for airflow.
3. Profit!

You can do this really cheap and I can testify, from personal experience, that it is a possible setup. I once worked on a system a bit like this for six months. I didn't implement the luxury version with the cardboard box though. Instead I just placed the mainboard (which was full AT size) on a wooden breadboard and bolted all the components to it. Why did I do this, you ask? Well, my wife had a meltdown over something related to time spent with her vs. time coding (Women, pfft! 🙄 Amiright?) and completely smashed my full tower case with a rolling pin, I shit you not.

 

Anyway, of course you still have to decide on the specs for the components but you will have to figure that out for yourself. It's impossible to give any clear recommendations as the specs will depend on what and how you use the system. Just get the best you can within your budget.

[Rollo62 534]

38 minutes ago, dummzeuch said:

The Mac Mini could qualify as a mini PC. But yeah it doesn't really answer the question.

Why not? 
If there is a change that he wants to create CrossPlattform Apps, this will be a good choice.
With Parallels Desktop, it runs Windows, and as far as I know Delphi runs nicely on an M1 MacMini.

I only use MacMini for XYCode purposes, so never tried to install Windows + Delphi there.

 

It depends, depends, depends, on what you need.

 

 

 

Edited October 30 by Rollo62

[Anders Melander 1780]

1 hour ago, Rollo62 said:

M1 MacMini

It's a very nice system but the refurbished ones I have been able to find are a bit expensive for what you get. I couldn't find any with more than 8Gb RAM although the max is 16Gb.

[Rollo62 534]

5 minutes ago, Anders Melander said:

It's a very nice system but the refurbished ones I have been able to find are a bit expensive for what you get. I couldn't find any with more than 8Gb RAM although the max is 16Gb.

Right, but its the cheapest way to start M1+ development and even reasonable local AI expermiments ( Llama3 8B runs on M2+ not so bad, much cheaper than Nvidia GPU ).
You can purchase an older, refurbished x86 machine maybe cheaper, but then you are stucked on x86, as fas as I can say will Apple hardly kill development any time they want.

 

[Alberto Paganini 3]

Hello again,

 

Thank you very much to everybody for your answers.

Just to clarify a few points, the budget I have is £ 250 max (EUR 300). In addition to Delphi, I would use it as an everyday PC (web browsing, MS Office).  I am not a gamer therefore I don't need much power.

I am looking for a new machine because I have an old one with Win 7 32bit. This is still working perfectly but no software has been updated and the performance is not the one that used to be. I will keep this machine though.

 

Back to the original question, this is the hardware I have in mind

• 16GB RAM
• 512GM HD
• OS Windows but I can purchase Win 11
• Graphic card being a non gamer I am not too bothered
• memory slots 2 HDMI+at least 2 fast USB (with USB hubs I can add more)
• I have already monitor, mouse, keyboard

 

I have found these two mini PC on Amazon

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Generation-Processors-Mini-PC-TRIGKEY/dp/B09VB6RK5L/ref=sr_1_19?crid=28IW58GPKU5WV&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.Osz6FijRchMrjKfN7_mprD5kJMeJeADwENYLX9JPUZJCQuGq0th04V9qLysT9Jc60OxgNyG6GlqXroxmyD8pes3k-DSrFCWMKgtRVGw3YjH5IextFntZvStnGurGD0wQsrU1ntJ-zutshySY9VH9ViU4X1H4lxw2_eVkf5uQxHC7RnFGXc5fX2j6H7_qJuF3h6qikvmW4qjm2o396qjmYq3f555HdRy9jbYVCz-BL2gT5roM_BsidwUKZvuEwkc_JZ5c8CQNN9Ow9LH2l0gWoNY811EqDyMygFKvCJN-x8A.4i5XU5kcvaFNGbFIzji5yeUnhnuLdZ4RLx7JPC2j0kk&dib_tag=se&keywords=mini+pc&nav_sdd=aps&qid=1730325108&refinements=p_36%3A9708205031%2Cp_n_feature_browse-bin%3A21740491031%2Cp_n_feature_twenty-eight_browse-bin%3A49894983031%2Cp_n_feature_eight_browse-bin%3A27344122031&rnid=27344119031&s=computers&sprefix=mini+pc&sr=1-19&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.d11e5925-8655-4946-ae2d-1a23abeb136b

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beelink-Lake-N100-Processor-Computer-MINI-S12/dp/B0BZGPTLPG/ref=sr_1_3?crid=28IW58GPKU5WV&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.oeSF7jwpawC-6vtsOXgkoJbHW7PRaFeeyFzOEbg3j8Kg-lbsPNmhBf9AZjllSzl4U4sWr-rrpo4eYatk3rR-SmcytxKW_H92trvDahZRGZjH8Mkta4mjfhV4-J7ejploO7fY5k8dAZyH71hATzKYnC8p_fCBYyKu4syDdpa1RQahYVivm8WmV_UgQC_JZEwECnNN-NLK55hR-Vy59DkM5Jm7KH6qlSmynPqIRr3vo5TRY5gEE8Bn_T2C1JrHSo2fU5GSlLn99nTCMl--SMC_ryiI1BjffrLKT1qppM1UsxM.hj5DpUFZ-DgbHkEKC1zsD7QwlY2fOMZQLrx3DTZeqRU&dib_tag=se&keywords=mini%2Bpc&nav_sdd=aps&qid=1730325219&refinements=p_36%3A20000-25000%2Cp_n_feature_browse-bin%3A21740491031%2Cp_n_feature_twenty-eight_browse-bin%3A49894983031%2Cp_n_feature_eight_browse-bin%3A27344122031&rnid=9708204031&s=computers&sprefix=mini%2Bpc&sr=1-3&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.d11e5925-8655-4946-ae2d-1a23abeb136b&th=1

 

The reason why I chose Amazon is because if something goes wrong during the warranty period there is no problem in replacing the machine or getting a refund.

Edited October 30 by Alberto Paganini

[dummzeuch 1505]

Both seem to be OK to me. The thing with those China produced mini PCs is that the descriptions contain every buzzword on the planet and are not necessary correct, so you better read the reviews and questions/answers too.

Even though the descriptions say the OS is DOS, they might still come with Windows 11 pre installed. But you should be wary about that installation. See my previous answer regarding that issue.

[Rollo62 534]

512GB HD

If possible, choose a decent SSD, its worth it, even with a little cost-up.

 

[Christophe E. 12]

two years ago I got this machine, I'm happy with it overall it works well for Delphi but since Delphi 12 I've noticed that the edi lags a bit, otherwise the compilation speed is correct and windows 11 works well, playing large videos can also slow down a bit.

 

https://www.amazon.fr/MINISFORUM-UM350-Ordinateur-Dual-Band-DisplayPort/dp/B09NPZ4L2Q

[dummzeuch 1505]

1 hour ago, Rollo62 said:

512GB HD

If possible, choose a decent SSD, its worth it, even with a little cost-up.

I that case, he should buy the PC without or with a small SSD and then upgrade it.

[Lars Fosdal 1790]

These days I avoid shopping at Amazon. The new MacMinis look amazing - but yeah, the Apple Tax is brutal. 

[Alberto Paganini 3]

Hello again,

13 hours ago, dummzeuch said:

The thing with those China produced mini PCs is that the descriptions contain every buzzword on the planet and are not necessary correct, so you better read the reviews and questions/answers too.

Even though the descriptions say the OS is DOS, they might still come with Windows 11 pre installed. But you should be wary about that installation. See my previous answer regarding that issue.

I read your previous comments, and I hear you. Honestly, I thought every PC was built in China, or at least all the components were made in China. I am more than willing to look into exceptions if you can point them out.

I looked into Beelink forum and it seems TPM is supported by their motherboards but sometimes it's not straightforward to enable. The preinstalled Windows is definitely, a customised version.

 

 

7 hours ago, Lars Fosdal said:

These days I avoid shopping at Amazon.

I chose Amazon because I thought a return would be straightforward in case something goes wrong. Am I wrong ? Why are you avoiding Amazon these days ? If there is a better solution please let me know and I will look into that too.

 

 

On 10/30/2024 at 1:13 PM, Anders Melander said:

This might sound crazy, but hear me out 🙂

1. Buy:
   • A nice Mini-PC mainboard with integrated graphics.
   • A CPU, some RAM, NVMe SSD.
   • The smallest fanless PSU that meets the power requirements of the above.
2. Put it all in cardboard box (or whatever). Remember to make some holes for airflow.
3. Profit!

I wish I had the knowledge and confidence to do that, Anders. At the first hurdle, I would not be able to progress.

 

Many thanks for your help

Alberto

[Anders Melander 1780]

3 minutes ago, Alberto Paganini said:

The preinstalled Windows is definitely, a customised version.

A customized Windows from China (if that's where the system is from)... That right there would be enough for me to wipe it.

 

6 minutes ago, Alberto Paganini said:

Why are you avoiding Amazon these days ?

I can't speak for Lars, but before Space Karen took the title, I Bezos was a bit of a real life Bond villain (okay he still is, but it's nothing compared to Elon). There are still a lot of ethical problems with how Amazon treat their work force and their suppliers. And then there's the recent Washington Post debacle. These idiots just can't stay likable.

That said, Amazon's return policy and customer service is second to none and it's the only place where I can get English language books in hardcover for a reasonable price (I'm in Denmark).

 

13 minutes ago, Alberto Paganini said:

I wish I had the knowledge and confidence to do that, Anders. At the first hurdle, I would not be able to progress.

Fair enough but like everything else (except maybe death), the only way to overcome that is to try it and learn from the experience. But I can understand if you'd rather use your time and energy on something else.

I think the last system I bought ready-made, apart from laptops, had a 80386 processor and 16Mb RAM. I've built a few lemons along the way but it's been a while since the last one.

 

By the way, one thing that you should do when looking at a new system is compare the CPU with the one in your existing system. Although a new system most likely has a newer CPU it might not be faster than what you have now. For example the processors in the two systems you listed are mobile processors optimized for low power consumption (it has a nominal clock speed of 0.7 GHz!), while your existing system likely has a desktop processor which likely is optimized for performance.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+N100&id=5157

[dummzeuch 1505]

8 hours ago, Alberto Paganini said:

Honestly, I thought every PC was built in China, or at least all the components were made in China. I am more than willing to look into exceptions if you can point them out.

They possibly are. I was referring to those that are also sold from small Chinese companies or possibly individuals directly to Europe via Amazon or other online marketplaces. They seem to just put every buzzword they can find into the description, sometimes even conflicting ones.

[Lars Fosdal 1790]

9 hours ago, Alberto Paganini said:

Why are you avoiding Amazon these days ?

Same reasons that Anders mentioned. Also, Amazon has a brutal grip on the market, and is killing off the competition.
For books, I've opted to pay more and order them from a local bookstore.

[Brandon Staggs 272]

17 hours ago, Anders Melander said:

And then there's the recent Washington Post debacle. These idiots just can't stay likable.

Funny, that was the first step in the right direction I've seen Bezos take with the Washington Compost. 

[Alberto Paganini 3]

Hello,

 

On 10/31/2024 at 10:16 PM, Anders Melander said:

By the way, one thing that you should do when looking at a new system is compare the CPU with the one in your existing system. Although a new system most likely has a newer CPU it might not be faster than what you have now. For example the processors in the two systems you listed are mobile processors optimized for low power consumption (it has a nominal clock speed of 0.7 GHz!), while your existing system likely has a desktop processor which likely is optimized for performance.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+N100&id=5157

I took the advice and compared the performance of the N100 against my desktop CPU single thread. I decided to spend a little more and get something that would perform better. In the end, taking advantage of a deal, I purchased this one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0CBJRZ1WY?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

 

I don't want to get rid of the old desktop and want to switch between desktop and Mini PC easily. I was looking into a KVM switch.

No problem with the mouse and keyboard as they both have USB connectors, the only issue is the monitor which has a DVI connector like this one https://www.amazon.co.uk/Benfei-Bidirectional-Female-Adapter-Gold-Plated-DVI-Male-HDMI-2-Pack/dp/B07CXY79KR?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&smid=ABI01N1FCUZG9&th=1 while the Mini PC has HDMI ports.

How can I connect the KVM switch to the Mini PC?

The idea is to purchase one of these KVM switches https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0D5XSXHCH/?coliid=I1QSRNJHGDRMZN&colid=3JBTT5GDUAMXQ&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_gv_ov_lig_pi_dp and connect the old desktop to the switch via DVI cables. To connect the Mini PC to the switch, I have found these cables https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0CDRSP469/?coliid=I2C187CZ18BSFU&colid=3JBTT5GDUAMXQ&ref_=list_c_wl_gv_ov_lig_pi_dp&th=1

 

Will this work? Do I need anything else? Would you recommend it?

 

Many thanks

Alberto