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Mahdi Safsafi

Rio quality disappoint

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Hello guys,

For a long time I was using Delphi XE7 and I was most of the time satisfied about it. Just when I made a clean Windows installation and then installed the community edition Rio. Booom, flickers mostly every where, nonworking getit, a lot of crash, cpu usage 46%, and the famous IDE's caption 'not responding...'. I disabled themes (I believed that was the problem) and yeppp I got a crappy IDE again (EAccessViolation GetIt260.bpl) !! I'm not even going to mention the use of inline-variable !

I really started thinking to switch to another platform (java, c#, c++ & Qt) ? 

What do you think guys ?

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Yes, quality lies and cries. Recently, I have been working a little in VSCode and the node.js ecosystem. Environmental quality is ahead of Delphi for ages. In addition, it works steadily and quickly, although behind the scenes everything is based on slow JS!

I have serious doubts that Delphi will ever catch up with the world in this area.

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Currently use VSCode and OmniPascal as my Editor for now. I suggest you try it out.

The only thing I use Delphi for is debugging.

Edited by Ugochukwu Mmaduekwe

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I’m still using Tokyo 10.2 and XE6 for some older projects. Haven’t hamd’t any real problems with either. Will wait for an update before I use Rio.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jacek Laskowski said:

Yes, quality lies and cries. Recently, I have been working a little in VSCode and the node.js ecosystem. Environmental quality is ahead of Delphi for ages. In addition, it works steadily and quickly, although behind the scenes everything is based on slow JS!

I have serious doubts that Delphi will ever catch up with the world in this area.

Yes your're absolutely right. I use eclipse daily and it's amazing (never saw 'not responding...'). I also use visual studio community for some c/c++ coding and its quality is really really incomparable to Delphi.

For VSCode, I just tested it with lite development (editing some python/Perl script) and yes it's shiny ! I always got a negative idea about technologies that use HTML/CSS/GPU for desktop-app (such FM) but VSCode make me change my mind ! 

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1 hour ago, Ugochukwu Mmaduekwe said:

Currently use VSCode and OmniPascal as my Editor for now. I suggest you try it out.

The only thing I use the Delphi debugger for is debugging.

I was a big fun of pascal language. But now I'm not :classic_sad:. The only reason that keeps me using Delphi is it's beautiful VCL. I use notepad++ to quick view/edit my pascal units. But I guess I'll switch to VSCode soon. 

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I have used Rio since the Beta and while I have found a few small bugs/issues, I have used it almost problem-free. I do not experience CPU load or flickering. But I dont use GetIt,

I think the issues will depend on what the IDE is used for, and how. 

 

Update 1 will hopefully be sometime soon, and should fix a lot of problems. It is a shame we don`t get a rolling Beta for this, which would increase confidence in what was coming. Regardless, I am happy with what is there, with the understanding that there are a lot of bugs to fix. 

 

Fingers crossed we hear something soon about Update 1! 

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Delphi as a platform has it's strong points (VCL, debugger, language, ...) but its IDE is not the one. It lacks capabilities of modern IDEs for code analyzing and editing. These features can save a lot of time.

Fortunately there are alternatives which can be used together with Delphi: VSCode and IDEA both supports Pascal.

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6 hours ago, Mahdi Safsafi said:

Hello guys,

For a long time I was using Delphi XE7 and I was most of the time satisfied about it. Just when I made a clean Windows installation and then installed the community edition Rio. Booom, flickers mostly every where, nonworking getit, a lot of crash, cpu usage 46%, and the famous IDE's caption 'not responding...'. I disabled themes (I believed that was the problem) and yeppp I got a crappy IDE again (EAccessViolation GetIt260.bpl) !! I'm not even going to mention the use of inline-variable !

I really started thinking to switch to another platform (java, c#, c++ & Qt) ? 

What do you think guys ?

 

I've been using 10.3 CE for a while and I'm quite happy with it. I'm releasing one of my main software in a few days, really satisfied with the development and with the IDE. 

I never had "not responding" caption or high CPU usage. Only some flickering that really annoys me (I'm coming from D2010 and it was wast!), but I like themes so I keep them, at cost of some flickering.

 

Be sure to ha installed:

- december patch 2018

- IDE fix pack from Andy

- DDEV extensions 2.85

 

Let us know if you'll notice some improvment. I'm still looking for an Embarcadero update to Rio 10.3 to better performance.

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Lots of problems can be caused by custom components and experts if they are installed in IDE. They all run in the same address space, so a small bug in third party component can break almost anything. So if you have problems, try to disable third party packages in IDE.

Another problem is when people try to edit > 10 Mb pas-files or forms with huge amount of components. In such situations IDE is almost screaming: "Do not violate coding best practices, split it in to multiple pieces".

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12 minutes ago, Микола Петрівський said:

Another problem is when people try to edit > 10 Mb pas-files or forms with huge amount of components. In such situations IDE is almost screaming: "Do not violate coding best practices, split it in to multiple pieces".

I'm probably not the best to judge quality coding practices, so I'm not... but! if Embarcadero was a one developer company, yes, understandable IDE would be screaming... but, this is 2019 and Embarcadero is not one man company. IDE should let us know what is it's problem so we can address it by changing the structure of code if needed, 'screaming' is the worst.

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44 minutes ago, Mike Torrettinni said:

IDE should let us know what is it's problem so we can address it by changing the structure of code if needed, 'screaming' is the worst.

Do you think some hints at compile time like "You have a lot of components on this form which may impact performance"?

 

That seems like something that could be hinted at, and you could always switch it off. 

 

IDE Fix is a must!

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1 hour ago, Микола Петрівський said:

Lots of problems can be caused by custom components and experts if they are installed in IDE. They all run in the same address space, so a small bug in third party component can break almost anything. So if you have problems, try to disable third party packages in IDE.

Another problem is when people try to edit > 10 Mb pas-files or forms with huge amount of components. In such situations IDE is almost screaming: "Do not violate coding best practices, split it in to multiple pieces".

I didn't install any 3rd party package. My Windows it self had a clean installation and my project was very simple one form and one button (just to test some new things).

Also a good IDE should works mostly on all situations and not to work just fine when building a "hello world" project. Recently I compiled the LLVM (which is a very huge project) using MSVS and the IDE handled it very good (just got some CPU overusing ... but that was logical) ! 

One things to mention about 3rd party : nowadays huge projects split plugins into sub-process (when a plugin fails the main app remains safe) ex: chrome. I'm not saying that EMB should go that way. My point is if a company cares about quality ... it will find a workaround. 

Please use VSCode, Visual Studio, or eclipse and I'm sure you will change your mind about Delphi IDE quality. 

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You didn't answer me: have you got the patch and the IDE fixes I mentioned? Any improvement?

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7 hours ago, Silver Black said:

You didn't answer me: have you got the patch and the IDE fixes I mentioned? Any improvement?

Sorry, I got only december patch 2018. 

The getit package now is working and my cpu is no longer overused by the IDE. But the GUI still the same :classic_sad:

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7 hours ago, Silver Black said:

You didn't answer me: have you got the patch and the IDE fixes I mentioned? Any improvement?

- the december patch does not mention anything about IDE stability fixes

- IDE FixPack is not yet released and only alpha state (and even may cause issues - well more precisely the CompilerFixPack for 64bit windows does - see https://quality.embarcadero.com/browse/RSP-23405)

- DDevExtensions does not fix IDE stability issues but adds productivity features

 

I am only using 10.3 for toying and it more often crashes (well the compiler gets into some state where it produces nothing than some internal errors after it eventually brings down the IDE) - and yes I am using the IDEFixPack alpha because I am not producing any production software with it.

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On 1/27/2019 at 9:57 PM, Ugochukwu Mmaduekwe said:

Currently use VSCode and OmniPascal as my Editor for now. I suggest you try it out.

The only thing I use Delphi for is debugging.

How do you develop forms with VSCode? Do you switch back to Delphi IDE?

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For a while a colleague wrote his code in Notepad++ and copy&pasted it into the Delphi IDE, because Code Insight didn't do anything but randomly make the IDE unusable and unresponsive for up to 30 seconds. He literally couldn't do his work with 10.3. 

After installing the dev snapshot of the IDE Fixpack it's a lot better now and it's at least usable again.

But it's still not acceptable that the IDE is in a state where some people are faster writing code in Notepad than in "RAD" (😂) Studio without disabling themes and a lot of IDE Insight features and having to install a third party patch before being remotely usable.

And the worst thing is: a lot of the performance and stability problems exist for nearly a decade at this point

Edited by Neutral General
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5 hours ago, Ugochukwu Mmaduekwe said:

Unfortunately, Yes I do.

Hmmm...and how do you write code in events? Say, in Button click event? You create it in IDE and reload the file in VSCode?

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12 hours ago, Stefan Glienke said:

- the december patch does not mention anything about IDE stability fixes

- IDE FixPack is not yet released and only alpha state (and even may cause issues - well more precisely the CompilerFixPack for 64bit windows does - see https://quality.embarcadero.com/browse/RSP-23405)

- DDevExtensions does not fix IDE stability issues but adds productivity features

 

I am only using 10.3 for toying and it more often crashes (well the compiler gets into some state where it produces nothing than some internal errors after it eventually brings down the IDE) - and yes I am using the IDEFixPack alpha because I am not producing any production software with it.

 

About FixPack for 10.3 I'm using this: IDE Fix Pack for Delphi - Version 6.4 (2019-01-12)

However, IDE is perfectly stable on my project of 150,000 code lines and I've migrated perfectly from D2010 Pro. Yes, some very annoying flickering with themes, but always responsive. I'm using a PC that is 10 years old now (CPU Intel Q9550, 8 GB RAM, SSD) and I really have a good environment to develop in, with no critical issues.

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VSCode is great tool. It has its downsides (being Electron app wasteful with resources) but I guess you can't have it all. It is far from being full fledged IDE for all purposes (and all languages), but it fits nicely into developer toolbox.

 

As far as Delphi is concerned, it can fill some gaps in Delphi IDE functionality, and sometimes it comes as a rescue when Delphi bugs itself out. With OmniPascal plugin it will get you a long way in cases where code completion stops working in Delphi and there is a lot of code that is not RAD and does not include working with forms. I also like it for editing frame and form files, when I had to change something without Delphi IDE interfering.

 

But the feature I like the most is its search capability with automatic preview of selected file so you can easily get more code context  - no mouse clicks, just keyboard.

 

I also sometimes use it to edit Java code (and xml layouts), when Android Studio has a bad day - which is quite often. Even more often I use it to write Swift code, because Xcode can be a huge PITA, too.

 

Not to mention it has markdown preview - really handy when writing documentation. 

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12 hours ago, John Kouraklis said:

Hmmm...and how do you write code in events? Say, in Button click event? You create it in IDE and reload the file in VSCode?

Exactly. 

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Would be a consideration to use IDE for views only, and setting all events via code.

Would bring your design more close to MVVM too, as a side effect .

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