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WillH

Best delphi so far?

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Hi Everyone,

  Just wondering which has been the best release of Delphi so far in terms of IDE stability and 32-bit VCL development? (and possibly 64-Bit windows)

 

  Have any been particularly good/bad for you?

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Darian Miller said:

I believe Delphi XE2 was the best release for IDE stability and 32-bit VCL development.   

If that's true, the IDE quality must have been atrocious in later versions, because in my experience XE2 isn't really stable. But maybe that's a matter of how you use them. I still prefer the Delphi 2007 IDE over the later ones, but again that might just be the way I use it. The 10.1 and 10.2 IDEs also seem OK, but I haven't used them much. 10.3 definitively is a step back: It's slow, it's ugly and its buggy.

Edited by dummzeuch

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Maybe Delphi 5, because still so many people are using this.
(And this is the biggest problem with Delphi probably).

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Currently my favorite is 10,2.3 as it provides the most features with a good stability. Given that it needed 3 updates to get there, I still have hope for the 10.3 branch.

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My favorite is always current version + 1 :classic_biggrin:

since Embt was getting so eager in evolving new features and fixing bugs.

There were other days were this was not always the case.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, dummzeuch said:

the IDE quality must have been atrocious in later versions

Yes, sadly.

Quote

in my experience XE2 isn't really stable

In my experience, XE2 is quite stable.  Although I do have newer versions installed in VMs, I never really used any of them.  I never upgraded my projects beyond XE2.

 

Edited by Remy Lebeau
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Posted (edited)

XE 6 has been pretty good to us.

 

We want/need to upgrade the production version (we already have the licenses) to latest to get proper (?) HighDPI support, but are still reluctant due to performance and stability issues. 

 

From the roadmap, it seems they still have to fix HighDPI issues, probably won’t be fully fixed until they dog food it by using it in the IDE, as indicated in the roadmap. 

Edited by Hallvard Vassbotn
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7 hours ago, dummzeuch said:

If that's true, the IDE quality must have been atrocious in later versions, because in my experience XE2 isn't really stable. But maybe that's a matter of how you use them. I still prefer the Delphi 2007 IDE over the later ones, but again that might just be the way I use it. The 10.1 and 10.2 IDEs also seem OK, but I haven't used them much. 10.3 definitively is a step back: It's slow, it's ugly and its buggy.

 

It's true - and it the IDE stability issue has been pretty bad.  Note that the question was a combination - best IDE stability and VCL win-32 development.  In that context, I believe XE2's minor IDE quirks very much outweigh Delphi 2007's more limited dev capabilities.   (+Generics, RTTI enhancements, Unicode support)

 

If it's just IDE, then I pick Delphi 5.  Super quick load time, no licensing quirks/worries.  

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Posted (edited)

Delphi 10.2.3 is very good. I use it for all new Delphi apps.

 

I have Delphi 10.3.1 also, but I do not like the skinning and it is slower. So I do not use it. I hope Embarcadero makes an option to unskin.

 

I sadly has to spend a lot time maintaining and developing in Delphi 5 for a specific application. Delphi 5 IDE and features has a lot annoying limitations. Due to large source size (~1.1 million LOC) the compiler inside IDE sometimes report error (I think it runs out of space for identifiers). The DCC32 command line compiler does not have the problem.

 

In the past I have used Delphi 7 a lot, and that is my favorite of classic Delphi versions.

Edited by Foersom
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As for the IDE quality and usability, nothing can beat Delphi 3 and Delphi 7. From the newer versions I'd pick XE (the last Win32-only version, pretty stable and fast) and 10.1 (Win32 + Win64, more or less stable and good-looking). I tried 10.2 and 10.3 but stayed at 10.1. My opinion on 10.3 is simple - it is a skinned snail-paced bug-ridden abomination. Were it not for the Linux compiler returned to the classic memory management, I'd never again touch it.

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Bit like 'What is the best Word Processor' - Comes down to experiences and preferences.

I currently do all my main work in D10.3.1 and put up with the idiosyncrasies.

For easy, simple, quick jobs, I prefer D2007.  In fact, I would still use D2007 for everything except a number of 3rd Party libraries I use in D10.3.1 no longer support D2007. :-(  That's the reality of 'progress'.

I only program 32bit windows Apps.  Nothing deliberately in UniCode.  If all the fancy stuff, which I suspect is at the root of the issues with it, was removed fro D10.3.1 I would be happier.

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Hi All,

   Thanks for the replies. I'm currently using Delphi XE. It's worked well for me, fairly quick, mostly stable, gets the job done.  Now I have third party component vendors providing features I need but only for newer Delphi versions. XE2 is supported at the moment but I imagine it will be next for the chop. I've tried 10.2.3 which seems OK but it is so slow, especially in the forms designer.

  I'll try the others mentioned in this thread to see if they are any better. At least I won't need to install and try every single version since XE.

 

  It's interesting that most people seem to prefer the very old versions of Delphi and *almost* universally dislike 10.3.1. That is surely something that Embarcadero need to focus on. If their focus is on extracting as much money as possible from existing customers, I would imagine that no new feature (or skin) would beat a stable and responsive IDE.

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Still use Delphi Seattle for core VCL 32-bit work - stable and reasonably responsive and not so old that getting updated components is a problem.

 

Use 10.3.1 AKA Rio for mobile and WebBroker work, can't say I've found it quite as bad as some here but I agree the skinning seems to make it quite flickery without adding much. Fingers crossed (as always) for the worst of that to be addressed in 10.3.Next

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In fact we need more stablity/perfomance/quality.
I use Delphi Rio and the IDE is slow, not as stable as prior versions, I have to fight the debugger most of the time I'm debugging, especially with win64 projects but also there's far more features in Rio than any prior IDE. Not to mention a lot more compilers / platforms / bitness combination factor.
EMB code is getting more and more organized, there's a lot of serious work done and I guess that Rio will improve much more with the next update.

 

Your question don't have a direct answer. Each will report a different IDE (as you saw). What saved most of the "older" IDE is IDEFixPack. An amazing job that changed the experience and impressions of older IDEs. If you think delphi XE is stable, using it with IDEFixpack will make the IDE faster and more stable. That's true with almost every IDE that came before Rio.

 

 

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I've read many complaints about speed and stability of the IDE. And I have made many such complaints. But in fairness, I have seen in large legacy projects that there are many things we can do which undercut the performance of the IDE. For example:

  1. Leaving units out of the DPR, relying on the search path. Slows code completion.
  2. Declaring const field members in a class. (D2007) Breaks code navigation below that point.
  3. Accumulating unit dependency cycles. Slows IDE response, but also slows the compiler on full builds.

There are other "thoughtless coding tricks" which may also contribute to poor behaviors, but those three are big.

Also, how many third-party components have you installed? Are they all solid and stable? That has been a risk area since D1.

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2 hours ago, Bill Meyer said:

I've read many complaints about speed and stability of the IDE. And I have made many such complaints. But in fairness, I have seen in large legacy projects that there are many things we can do which undercut the performance of the IDE. For example:

  1. Leaving units out of the DPR, relying on the search path. Slows code completion.
  2. Declaring const field members in a class. (D2007) Breaks code navigation below that point.
  3. Accumulating unit dependency cycles. Slows IDE response, but also slows the compiler on full builds.

Honestly, I see no reason why these things should cause slowing down or breaking of code tools.

Code tools must work regardless of code style used.

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Georgge Bakh said:

Honestly, I see no reason why these things should cause slowing down or breaking of code tools.

Code tools must work regardless of code style used.

As to the class constants, I must assume it is a defect in the IDE which is tied to the parser used for code completion.

In my comments, I did not say that the tools do not work; I did identify factors which affect performance. There may well be other strategies which might be applied to avoid the issue with search path, but I consider it poor practice not to name all your own units as members of the project.

Unit dependency cycles are a whole other issue. I can suggest you watch Anders Hejlsberg's video on modern compiler construction. Or just consider with a whiteboard what happens with a small collection of units (A, B, C, D) when:

A uses B, B uses C, C uses A and B uses D, but D uses A and B. It's a mess, and when you consider a larger application, the mess is multiplicative.

If you see no reason for the result, I submit you may have spent little time understanding the process. I have spent a number of years dealing with legacy code in large projects, and untangling things is a challenge.

Edited by Bill Meyer
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Since i am a Delphi developer since #1 and before 

I am in favor D7 and D10.2.3.

Delphi is stable unless you add on some staff

that make it erratic.

For example closing D7 give an error that

i never bothered to fix (i know which add on dose it).

Some times D10.2.3 dose the same on closing.

But on a days work i did not experience any problem

unless the components do a problem. 

 

If one uses Delphi with nothing added no problem 

experience.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, limelect said:

I am in favor D7 and D10.2.3.

I agree.

 

1 hour ago, limelect said:

Delphi is stable unless you add on some staff

that make it erratic.

LOL, are you sure you mean staff (employees, people) and not stuff (things, components)? 😉

 

Delphi 10.2.3 has worked well for us with third party components installed, e.g. TMS component pack and more.

 

Edited by Foersom

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14 hours ago, Bill Meyer said:

there are many things we can do which undercut the performance of the IDE

Hi Bill,

  Of course you are correct that the way the product is used will affect performance. However, I think that it's a fair test to use the same project and associated third party components to form an opinion on relative performance between the IDE's.

 

  After turning off live bindings, the 10.2.3 IDE is running better although still very noticeably slower than XE. Mostly, the slowness is in the form designer when looking at relatively complex screens. This appears to be a fairly common complaint about the IDE's since livebindings were introduced. Maybe it is time for me to break up and simplify the affected screens to work with the IDE a bit more.

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I have projects start in different versions and some projects upgraded. I upgraded projects a lot more back-when before virtual machines. Nowadays i "simply" keep a VM for any deployed project/projects.

 

I have "ended" up staying on:

 

D2009 (migrated this spring - soon to be deleted!!!),

XE2 (will be obsolete by 2021 - fingers crossed),

XE7 (will probably be upgraded to 10.2.3 in 2020, mush easier because it's mainly server-side),

Berlin (10.1 Upd 2) and

Tokyo 10.2.3

 

10.2.3 is not deployed, it's WIP (XE2 stuff to be migrated) but i am comparatively happy with that version anyway.

 

I have only dabbled with 10.3.x and i will not jump on that train just yet.

Edited by Dany Marmur

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20 minutes ago, Dany Marmur said:

 

I have "ended" up staying on:

 

D2009 (migrated this spring - soon to be deleted!!!),

If I were you I'd hang on to that D2009 version for a while, at least if the size of your executables and DLL's matters. D2009 produces much more compact executables/DLL's than all later versions.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, A.M. Hoornweg said:

If I were you I'd hang on to that D2009 version for a while

I still have it if i need to for such projects. The projects that i still maintain in D2009 are super-old and can be replaced with... hm... how to say; more apt technologies using newer Delphi versions. It is a kind of consolidation towards fewer versions. On the other side are clients that put a stop to developing further, i.e. technical debt. Do note; i'm NOT saying the D2009 is a technical debt in itself, just the stuff i deployed using it. Just count the years 🙂 "Deleted" will be the VM as in "will not be maintained further".

Edited by Dany Marmur

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