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PeterPanettone

Delphi compatibility with Windows 11?

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5 hours ago, Virgo said:

Except in case of most newer PC's, that do not have separate TPM chip and instead implement TPM in firmware.  And where firmware update may reset TPM.

Yes, what I meant was the original idea of TPM (as 2FA).


You're right, and IMHO it means that all firmware/software TPM solutions were OoA (Obsolete on Arrival).

But from a user's perspective I love the idea of the virtual/firmware TPM, to open some options.

 

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3 hours ago, david_navigator said:

What happens when your PC dies and you try and move your HDD to another machine - will it be usable ?

Good question.

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FWIW, TPM 2.0 support has been available for VMware Workstation since at least Workstation 14 IOW since 2017. [1]

 

Another note is that Windows 11 in a VM appears to run just fine without TPM and even UEFI as I upgraded a Windows 10 VM to Windows 11 and it has neither. To put it in another way. Microsoft relaxes the requirements for virtual machines as was found by VMTN user SvenGus here [2]

To quote SvenGus:

Quote

BTW, in this document:

https://download.microsoft.com/download/7/8/8/788bf5ab-0751-4928-a22c-dffdc23c27f2/Minimum Hardware Requirements for Windows 11.pdf

… they say that certain requirements are ignored when Windows 11 detects a virtual environment:

5 Virtual Machine
Microsoft recognizes that the user experience when running the Windows 11 in virtualized environments may vary from the experience when running non-virtualized. So, while Microsoft recommends that all virtualized instances of the Windows 11 follow the same minimum hardware requirements as described in Section 1.2, the Windows 11 does not apply the hardware-compliance check for virtualized instances either during setup or upgrade. Note that, if the virtualized environment is provisioned such that it does not meet the minimum requirements, this will have an impact to aspects of the user experience when running the OS in the virtualized environment.

 

 

[1] https://docs.vmware.com/en/VMware-Workstation-Pro/14.0/com.vmware.ws.using.doc/GUID-B42CAC2A-DC3D-4F15-BEFE-AB4319B288CB.html

[2] https://communities.vmware.com/t5/VMware-Fusion-Discussions/vmware-fusion-on-m1-goal/m-p/2856321/highlight/true#M174764

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Typically, any Delphi app runs smoothly on Windows 11 (I've been using W11 since June).

Using an application with native Windows Style, the main differences I found are visible in this form:

The window and even the menu have rounded corners

The menuitem selected has rounded corners and a smaller area of drawing

The major problem is visible in the selected cell of a DbGrid: a strange rectangular and a rounded focused box: very bad to see.

If an edit has Ctl3D it works like default in W11: only the bottom border is visible (and colored): when the input receive focus the bottom border gets thicker

Selected RadioGroup has a colored border instead of a dot inside.

Scrollbars are thiny and enlarged when focused.

Buttons are rounded

Using a Styled app, all of those problem disappear, but it would be useful to have styles that look like Windows 11, just as Windows 10 styles were created (I hope in the next Delphi 11 release).

image.thumb.png.77130fb2c0623d2554ef919658db45e3.png

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Many thanks for your analysis.

These extremely narrow highlights were often thought to be a bug, but Microsoft has confirmed it is intentional. Really puzzling decision to me.

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I don't know what kind of problems people always have. If Window 11 doesn't work, just don't take it. Delphi 11 will probably not be compatible then either. Case done. Just don't take it. Still using Delphi 10 and waiting 2 years for all problems to be resolved.

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On 9/12/2021 at 11:38 AM, Ralf7 said:

If Window 11 doesn't work, just don't take it.

If you don't upgrade your computer to Windows 11 how do you test if your application works correctly or not? Please don't tell me that you force all of your users not to upgrade and not to buy a new computer with Windows 11 OS.

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At the moment I've resolved in this way the bad painting of DbGrid:

procedure TForm1.DbGridDrawColumnCell(Sender: TObject; const Rect: TRect;
  DataCol: Integer; Column: TColumn; State: TGridDrawState);
var
  LDbGrid: TDbGrid;
begin
  LDbGrid := Sender as TDbGrid;
  //Resolve bad painting of selected cell in Windows 11
  if not StyleServices.Enabled or (StyleServices.IsSystemStyle) then
  begin
    if ((gdSelected in State) and (gdFocused in State))
      or ((gdSelected in State) and (dgRowSelect in LDbGrid.Options) and LDbGrid.Focused)
      then
      LDbGrid.Canvas.Brush.Color := clHighlight;
    LDbGrid.DefaultDrawColumnCell(Rect, DataCol, Column, State);
  end;
end;

image.thumb.png.0038c3d62cf684e6fd4a52b6f3ffdd57.png

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I have now upgraded to Win 11. The "rounded corners" is so much more than just rounded corners. It is a lot more than just a look. Skinning in itself will not achieve a proper implementation, at least not in VCL. Applying workarounds will create a havoc similar to High DPI, IMHO. To start with we need the VCL to handle the NC areas properly, Windows App SDK is not just a look. Then moving on to controls and looks within apps, here, skinning might help. But now i am speculating. Without this the VCL will not survive when Win11 comes to offices, IMHO, this is also speculation, but commercial.

 

https://blogs.embarcadero.com/windows-11-a-beautiful-meteor-will-wipe-out-the-dinosaurs/

 

Oh, hover over the common restore/maximize button if you have Win 11!

Edited by Dany Marmur

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On 9/14/2021 at 4:39 AM, Lajos Juhász said:

If you don't upgrade your computer to Windows 11 how do you test if your application works correctly or not? Please don't tell me that you force all of your users not to upgrade and not to buy a new computer with Windows 11 OS.

Considering that's how everybody else does it, causing some poor saps to even run W2K machines that is not the worst of all choices...

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Annoyingly, the Windows 11 GUI doesn't show rounded corners in my VM.  Makes me wonder what else looks different between a VM and a regular desktop.

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29 minutes ago, Lars Fosdal said:

Annoyingly, the Windows 11 GUI doesn't show rounded corners in my VM

That for all win32/64 applications in your VM with Win 11? None?

What about Settings and Explorer?

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When you don't have hardware accelerated graphics (in your VM), that's just how it looks. No transparency effects, rounded corners and that kind of stuff. The basic rendering, however, is the same.

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They could have reused their Win7  Engine, but where would be the fun in that.

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And here we are... another Windows with eye candy, but I wonder how many of the broken basics have been repaired.

- MS Teams statuses are all but useless, as the update process is unreliable, at best.

- MS Outlook instances seem to insist on maintaining individual statuses, so when all email has been read read in one instance, another instance shows unread mail.

- MS Office shared docs are dicey, as the status synchronization there also is poor.

- OneDrive? Don't get me started.

I'm sure we all have Windows issues we simply learned to tolerate. 

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9 minutes ago, Bill Meyer said:

OneDrive? Don't get me started.

No improvement in W11?

I thought that was such a cool idea, shared office files, but I switched it off very quickly, on W10. Unreliable, kept complaining it's offline and can't connect. Shame.

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19 minutes ago, Mike Torrettinni said:

No improvement in W11?

I thought that was such a cool idea, shared office files, but I switched it off very quickly, on W10. Unreliable, kept complaining it's offline and can't connect. Shame.

Don't know. I should have mentioned I am not spending time on W11. We've only just updated production VMs to W10.

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I like 11.  It appears to be snappier than 10. 

But, yeah... there are still remnants from 7 in there.  Really annoying that they haven't done away with the old Control Panel completely and got it modernized in Settings.

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I like the feel a lot.

I dislike the fact that they have removed so many shortcuts from W10.

Like being able to turn nightlight on/off from the taskbar, i cannot even see what time it is short of 1) looking very close at the bottom right corner or clicking (and loading!!) the widgets. Meh.

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29 minutes ago, Dany Marmur said:

@Lars Fosdal, what about hovering over the restore/maximise button in your VM. Does the window-layou popover show?

Yes, it shows. That thing is f'ing brilliant!
image.png.d224070609094e186af78181fe6c8657.png

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I spent 15 minutes to "find" it again after i noticed it flashing by once.

A DX Ribbon app does not display it.

Electron (Teams) only sometimes.

Some (Delphi) apps are not shown in the "pick" view 😞 But that is for when i have time.

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