Anyone know why?

[Rick_Delphi 14]

I still check Delphi job listings from time to time and see there are companies that have been looking for a Delphi developer for going on two years. I know that Delphi devs are not easy to find, but how can they not have hired someone by now? They could have hired someone and taught them Delphi, problem solved! What's up with these companies? Why does no one want to work for them?

 

For example, Gateway Ticketing is now placing ads for basically every city in the state of Pennsylvania. Why don't they wise up and change they way they hire?

Edited March 27, 2023 by Rick_Delphi

[David Heffernan 2345]

Given your definition of a developer, writing requirements etc, what even is a Delphi developer. Aren't there just developers? 

[Darian Miller 361]

3 hours ago, Rick_Delphi said:

For example, Gateway Ticketing

They seem to have been hiring Delphi devs for at least the last 10 years.  I was in a similar boat a while back - trying to hire year after year.  One problem for me was that I had 10 or more developers and there is always some turnover.  By the time you hire a replacement and get them up to speed, you get a little break and get to do it again.  Its tough finding quality Delphi developers that also want to relocate.  The good developers have likely been in their same job for decade or more and are happy where they are at.  The younger developers don't seem to stay in one place very long.   

[Darian Miller 361]

3 hours ago, David Heffernan said:

...what even is a Delphi developer. Aren't there just developers? 

Perhaps at some level, but there are practical realities.  For example - are there just electricians - or some that work industrial, light commerical, some residential?   You could be a residential electrician and likely work for a commercial outfit, but have to go through additional training.  But perhaps the company doesn't want to train, or more likely, aren't experts at training.  While they could hire an electrician that just worked on a few residential projects, there's definitely more business risk involved than hiring a licensed, experienced electrican that has worked on large industrial projects in the past.

 

We've likely all learned one language and picked up others. But, you can certainly be an expert in one and a noob in another.  For myslef, I've played with Python and can't stand it... I don't know if I could ever be productive in it.  But it takes a long while to learn all the native libraries and nuances with any given platform.  (New users to Visual Studio see a learning curve that wasn't nearly a decade ago.)

 

So yes, you could treat all developers the same - but they aren't the same, not really.  If you are in a pinch, a C , C++, C# developer could fit into a Delphi slot but someone that has just done Ruby on Rails would probably have a pretty hard time of it.

 

[David Heffernan 2345]

21 minutes ago, Darian Miller said:

So yes, you could treat all developers the same - but they aren't the same, not really.  If you are in a pinch, a C , C++, C# developer could fit into a Delphi slot but someone that has just done Ruby on Rails would probably have a pretty hard time of it.

 

That's not my experience. But when I hire people I'm looking long term. 

[Dave Novo 51]

I agree with Darian. We have hired many good Devs in the past with and without Delphi experience. Of course the good Devs with no Delphi experience are already good Devs by any definition i.e. smart, know OOP well, diligent workers. But lets face it, the RTL/VCL is 10s or maybe 100s of thousands of lines of code. You cannot expect a Delphi noob to not take a while to learn even what classes are available and what the methods are. Never mind all the Delphi-isms how to most effectively use them. Never mind how to work around all the bugs in the IDE and all the tricks of the Delphi debugger. Never mind the subtleties of Delphi reference counting that can be different from other libraries. etc. etc. IME it takes at least a few years before a good developer becomes a true good Delphi Developer. 

[tgbs 14]

9 hours ago, Darian Miller said:

They seem to have been hiring Delphi devs for at least the last 10 years.  I was in a similar boat a while back - trying to hire year after year.  One problem for me was that I had 10 or more developers and there is always some turnover.  By the time you hire a replacement and get them up to speed, you get a little break and get to do it again.  Its tough finding quality Delphi developers that also want to relocate.  The good developers have likely been in their same job for decade or more and are happy where they are at.  The younger developers don't seem to stay in one place very long.   

Why is this necessary?

[Lars Fosdal 1792]

8 hours ago, David Heffernan said:

when I hire people I'm looking long term.

As do most of us, but the uncomfortable truth is that work mobility has changed a lot.

 

The younger generations seem to thrive on switching job far more often than the older, who appear to enjoy staying in the same place.

And, finding Delphi developers is very hard, as it seems they tend to stay?

 

On relocation - I agree that a lot of work can be done remotely, but even distributed teams do need to get together periodically.

[Fr0sT.Brutal 900]

13 hours ago, Darian Miller said:

Its tough finding quality Delphi developers that also want to relocate

Are you still hiring and where are you? 🙂

[Darian Miller 361]

11 hours ago, tgbs said:

Why is this necessary?

That was a few years back, and the ability to successfully remote work is much higher today.  (I remotely work full-time now with zero travel.) 

 

However, some teams insist on relocation.  Being on-site can definitely improve communication, improve teamwork, improve productivity. Musk initially banned remote work at Twitter and then shortly afterwards embraced the concept as he discovered the cost savings.

 

But, there's no "right" answer that applies to everyone...although it is definitely leaning more towards remote work today.  Technology has improved and attitudes are different.  But the downside for the Delphi developer that has been comfortably earning 100+k/year is now directly competing with the Brazilian or Phillipino developer earning significantly less. 

 

 

 

[Darian Miller 361]

11 hours ago, Lars Fosdal said:

And, finding Delphi developers is very hard, as it seems they tend to stay?

I'd agree that contributes to the problem of hiring Delphi developers.  I was in my last position for over 20 years.  Most of the developers that worked with me were there for 10+ years.  The younger ones last 12-18 months and move on.  

 

[Darian Miller 361]

6 hours ago, Fr0sT.Brutal said:

Are you still hiring and where are you? 🙂

 

Not currently.  I advertised a few times for my current workplace and we hired two devs in the last year or so.   Our small dev team has 3 Delphi MVPs on it, which is nice. 

[David Heffernan 2345]

There's an awful lot of anecdote doing a lot of heavy lifting in this thread. I'm seldom persuaded by anecdote. 

 

Some thoughts occur to me though. 

 

If companies want developers to code in Delphi, but want some body else to train them, then this isn't sustainable. People retire. And then what? 

 

Also, I just don't buy the idea that smart talented developers can't learn new technology quickly. We took on a uni placement student this year, who had done two years at uni and no Delphi. They were productive in weeks. And most of the learning was of our code base. I honestly think that if you aren't prepared to take on talented developers and teach them a new language and libraries, then you have far bigger problems as an organisation. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by David Heffernan

[Vincent Parrett 750]

49 minutes ago, David Heffernan said:

I honestly think that if you aren't prepared to take on talented developers and teach them a new language and libraries, then you have far bigger problems as an organisation. 

My experience over the last 20 years is that many new devs just do not want to learn delphi. I lost count of how many times people I was interviewing had either never heard of Delphi, or were surprised to hear it was still arround. People want to learn languages which they see a future in, which are modern and supports modern development targets. These days that is the web or mobile. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Vincent Parrett

[Anders Melander 1782]

13 hours ago, Lars Fosdal said:

even distributed teams do need to get together periodically.

Why?

I haven't seen my client or the rest of my team for something like 4 years. They're in Norway, btw. The webcam on my main PC broke 3 years ago, so most of the team has literally never seen me. The others think I have short hair and am clean-shaven, but I stopped shaving and cutting my hair when Corona hit, so they wouldn't even recognize me now with a full beard and a ponytail.

 

I've previously worked with teams in Ukraine, Sweden, and the UK that I never met physically and never had any practical need to meet. Sure, it's nice to get together for pizza and beer once in a while, but that's just a nice-to, not a need-to.

[Anders Melander 1782]

3 hours ago, Darian Miller said:

Musk initially banned remote work at Twitter and then shortly afterwards embraced the concept as he discovered the cost savings.

Yes, now they all work from home... at other companies.

[Anders Melander 1782]

1 hour ago, David Heffernan said:

We took on a uni placement student this year, who had done two years at uni and no Delphi. They were productive in weeks. And most of the learning was of our code base.

This is my experience too.

 

54 minutes ago, Vincent Parrett said:

My experience over the last 20 years is that many new devs just do not want to learn delphi.

and unfortunately this too.

 

Luckily we have both Delphi and C# projects and many works on both.

[Darian Miller 361]

2 hours ago, Anders Melander said:

Yes, now they all work from home... at other companies.

Or they are unemployed living in their Mom's basement.

[Darian Miller 361]

4 hours ago, David Heffernan said:

People retire. And then what? 

It gets rewritten in C# or otherwise moved to the cloud.  

[Lars Fosdal 1792]

10 hours ago, Anders Melander said:

On 3/28/2023 at 8:41 AM, Lars Fosdal said:

even distributed teams do need to get together periodically.

Why?

In my experience, coming together periodically has been invaluable - particularily in the phase where design requirements and decisions have been on the table. Whiteboard + access to actual production premises and people has been crucial.  No text description can convey the same knowledge as being able to observe the users/operators in person, doing the tasks your software assists them with. One could argue that should be the job of architects, but for my projects, the developers have also been the architects.

 

Another case is in discovery and learning phases - having frictionless access to people for numerous short discussions, lowers the inclination of the learning curve.

Can it be done via Teams/etc? Sure, but - in person is more efficient.

 

As always, the needs depends on the project / team.  

[Brandon Staggs 277]

On 3/28/2023 at 2:10 PM, David Heffernan said:

Also, I just don't buy the idea that smart talented developers can't learn new technology quickly. We took on a uni placement student this year, who had done two years at uni and no Delphi. They were productive in weeks. And most of the learning was of our code base. I honestly think that if you aren't prepared to take on talented developers and teach them a new language and libraries, then you have far bigger problems as an organisation. 

One problem is the developers themselves who do not want a black hole of time on their resume that working on Delphi for a while may represent. Whether or not this is a justified concern I do not know, but I do know for a fact that it is a real issue that makes hiring someone for Delphi work a challenge. Also, I have worked with people who were great developers doing typical mainstream stuff, who when they were tasked with doing work in Delphi, decided they would rather leave the job and work somewhere else. Not because they couldn't do it, but because they just didn't want to work with Delphi.

[Rick_Delphi 14]

I have always been under the impression that it's the job of leadership and management to make the work productive and the worker achieving. So, is this hiring thing the fault of the company or should there be people in the world who are a perfect match for a particular company (even before they have ever worked there)?

[SwiftExpat 65]

Honestly, the folks over at gateway are very up front about the job, they want a developer who can travel onsite to do installs.  And they are up front!

 

Now for the more experienced developer, you might consider this 🙂  from linkedin. These folks are looking for grey beard on a minimal salary.

 

..........................

 

Role: Delphi Developer
Location : Frederick, MD (Remote)
Duration: Long Term
Remote – OK but Associate must be in EST zone
Job Description:
Looking For 6+yrs Delphi Developer with Below Skills.

Qualifications:

• Should have 10-12 years of strong experience in Software Development in Delphi.
• Should be an expert in Delphi development and Technical Analysis Documentation.
• Ability to effectively resolve performance/memory leak/scalability issues.
• Develops, enhances and maintains Pension and Retirement applications using Delphi, Cobol, MS SQL and Btrieve files.
• Excellent understanding of any RDBMS like Oracle or SQL Server.
• Strong results orientation, excellent verbal and written communication skills.
• Should be capable of handling product versions, documentation and development standards.
• Participates in the analysis and design of the client's system applications.
• Ability to understand code in Delphi 7 and convert to 64-Bit Delphi XE8.
• Good technical, analytical and communication skills.
• Strong expertise in application development using Delphi, Interbase and SQL Server.
• Strong knowledge of COM, ODBC, OOPS concepts and XML.
• Sound experience on developing Client Server applications and libraries.
• Expertise on PLSQL, RDBMS concepts and development using relational databases.
   

Roles and Responsibilities :

• Responsible for developing software solutions which are technically and architecturally sound in principle.
• Adherence to commitments delivery timelines and development guidelines.
• Run and monitor software performance tests on new and existing programs for the purposes of correcting errors, determining areas of improvement and general debugging.

--

Thanks & Regards
Anand Raj | Lead - Talent Acquisition (US Division)
Teamware Solutions Inc |2838 E. Long Lake Road,Suite# 210, TROY, MI 48085 😧 |

• provided by Dice

[Anders Melander 1782]

1 hour ago, SwiftExpat said:

These folks are looking for grey beard on a minimal salary

They do seem to be looking for a pretty experienced developer but does that imply grey beard? And how do you conclude that the salary is minimal?

[Anders Melander 1782]

Just now, Anders Melander said:

how do you conclude that the salary is minimal?

Never mind. I see that it's an Indian company...