Disaster planning by archiving GetIt installers

[Tom F 83]

The recent GetIt failure has exposed some vulnerabilities many of us have in archiving our development machines.

Using local backup procedures and virtual machines to archive our development machines is one way we can protect ourselves.

But, another reasonable safeguard would be for us to assure that we can build our development environment from scratch, offline. Archiving the RAD Studio ISO is a good first step.

But, if the GetIt servers are down, or if older versions of tools become unavailable for any other reason, the ISO is insufficient protection.

Perhaps we can archive GetIt installers also?

Marco's post (from last year) indicates that the IDE can create an html log of GetIt actions: http://blog.marcocantu.com/blog/2018-july-getit-install-logs.html. 

Examining the sample logs in his blog, it appears that C:\Users\Public\Documents\Embarcadero\Studio\20.0\CatalogRepository\ might contain the downloaded installers that we could invoke using the command lines that are in the log.

I plan to empirically test this approach, but thought I'd ask the expert community here for any insight or experience it has on this.

Has anyone here ever tried to manually install GetIt downloads by examining this log and using command lines with the .exe files?   Are there any rules about GetIt downloads being self-contained, or perhaps might they also download additional resources.

Edited July 26, 2019 by Tom F
Minor grammatical corrections

[David Heffernan 2345]

Why would any professional programmer be using getit anyway? As I understand it, it is suitable for hobbyists and no more. 

[Stéphane Wierzbicki 45]

5 minutes ago, David Heffernan said:

Why would any professional programmer be using getit anyway? As I understand it, it is suitable for hobbyists and no more. 

You need GetIt if you want to easily download the Android Sdk/Ndk

 

GetIt is down for many days now... 

 

Ps: I know that I can download sdk and ndk from Google Servers directly but hey, I thousands Euro on Delphi... 

 

 

[timfrost 78]

The problem described here is the basic reason (of course there are others) why I have never considered downloading from Getit any tool or component we will use in a production environment.  We have source for all the components we use and for every one the BPL/DCP is built by a Finalbuilder project under our control.  And if you download and install something from Getit (when it comes back up) how do you check precisely what has changed since you last downloaded it?  Where has your older version gone, for comparison?

[David Heffernan 2345]

1 hour ago, Stéphane Wierzbicki said:

You need GetIt if you want to easily download the Android Sdk/Ndk

How easy does it seem right now? 

[David Heffernan 2345]

1 hour ago, timfrost said:

And if you download and install something from Getit (when it comes back up) how do you check precisely what has changed since you last downloaded it?  Where has your older version gone, for comparison?

Exactly this. 

[Dalija Prasnikar 1396]

12 hours ago, Stéphane Wierzbicki said:

You need GetIt if you want to easily download the Android Sdk/Ndk

 

GetIt is down for many days now... 

 

Ps: I know that I can download sdk and ndk from Google Servers directly but hey, I thousands Euro on Delphi... 

 

 

Like others have said, GetIt is good for newbies, hobbyists, it is not really well suited for professionals - only if you want to try something without too much hustle...

 

But using GetIt for downloading Android SDK/NDK is pure masochism. Uninstalling/Installing that every time you need to update Delphi.... WHY????

 

You have several options... download with GetIt, then move (copy) that in some permanent location... or IMO the best option, go to https://developer.android.com/studio and download Android Studio it will also give you tools for additional monitoring and inspection of your Delphi app.

Or if you really don't want whole Studio... you can also download SDK separately. 

 

You can share same SDK across different tools and Delphi versions. No need to keep separate versions or update it every time you update Delphi.

[David Schwartz 426]

On 7/26/2019 at 11:28 AM, David Heffernan said:

Why would any professional programmer be using getit anyway? As I understand it, it is suitable for hobbyists and no more. 

I've been using Raize Components since D4 or so. I much prefer them to the regular components. They're rock-solid and exactly what should be provided as the default components, IMHO. I can't build a TON of older projects without it. When Embt bought it from Raize and then priced them at some outrageous amount vs. what we had been paying Raize, I told my account exec, "Sorry, but I'm not upgrading Delphi because without Raize Components I can't use it for my older projects. And I'm not paying what you guys want just to get the libs updated so they'll recompile with each release." One guy wrote back, "We may be making an announcement shortly that will make you happy."

 

Given the slow and steady demise of Delphi in the marketplace, and the general lack of support users have expressed for commercial libs, a lot of otherwise excellent component libraries have been released for hosting on GetIt. 

 

If you want a bunch of half-baked crap, visit Torry's. GetIt has stuff in it that Embt has thankfully agreed to maintain so those of us working on older legacy products that use these component libs can continue to use newer versions of Delphi. Without it, I think they'd lose a lot of business.

 

Of course, there's also a ton of demos that only run inside of the IDE, and require you to pay for if you want the full version, which is fine. But it's the presence of formerly commercial libs that I find most valuable.

 

When Delphi went from D6 to D7, a lot of users bailed out and switched to C#/.NET because some popular component libs did not make it through the transition (Dream Components being a biggie). This happened again when Unicode was introduced. If people have to rewrite entire apps because old libs are no longer available with new versions of Delphi, they're more likely to switch platforms than anything else. I think they learned their lesson.

[David Schwartz 426]

I've been unable to make GetIt work since 10.2.1 was released. Some unrelated libs apparently introduced a problem with something that was never fixed, and it raises some kind if stupid error in the interface that prevents it from loading up.

 

Having an automated installer is nice, but we definitely need a way to manually download and install these libraries, otherwise they're pretty much useless.

 

If Embt is going to provide access to these libs for anything more than fun, they need to offer better support. The quality of the libs themselves is great. The interface sucks and Embt doesn't seem to give a rat's ass.

Edited July 28, 2019 by David Schwartz

[David Heffernan 2345]

1 hour ago, David Schwartz said:

If you want a bunch of half-baked crap, visit Torry's. GetIt has stuff in it that Embt has thankfully agreed to maintain so those of us working on older legacy products that use these component libs can continue to use newer versions of Delphi.

The issue is not what components you use. The issue is the development process. You need to be able to create development environments in a robust way. These environments need to be identical. And you need to be able to build with different versions of your codebase, including different versions of your components. That isn't something that you get with naive package manager use. 

 

1 hour ago, David Schwartz said:

Having an automated installer is nice, but we definitely need a way to manually download and install these libraries, otherwise they're pretty much useless.

Yes. That's pretty much the point. 

[Tom F 83]

 

 

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10 hours ago, David Schwartz said:

I've been using Raize Components since D4 or so. I much prefer them to the regular components. 

I agree. And although I have the RAD Studio ISO, I'm unable to do any work on our code base until I can get a copy of the Konopka (nee Raize) components installed. Which, of course, depends on Getit.

The above was the reason for my OP.  I haven't found any way to purchase source for the library (nor do I want to spend the money.)  I plan to explore grabbing the installer from the CatalogRepository folder once Getit is running again.  Although this will be "closing the barn door after the horse has escaped" at least I'll be protected should this total failure by EMB happen in the future.

 

[Georgge Bakh 29]

10 hours ago, David Heffernan said:

You need to be able to create development environments in a robust way. These environments need to be identical. And you need to be able to build with different versions of your codebase, including different versions of your components. That isn't something that you get with naive package manager use.

This is the primary goal of a good package manager. But I agree - GetIt obviously can't achieve it by design.

[FredS 138]

1 hour ago, Georgge Bakh said:

GetIt obviously can't achieve it by design

Design or not, its down 10 days now..

[Der schöne Günther 316]

A year back or so, GetIt stopped working for 10 Seattle. I opened a support ticket with Embarcadero. I'm glad they were honest and told me they weren't going to fix it and I should download stuff from Github instead. That really showed it's nice for quickly trying something out, but no one knows when it will stop working.

[David Schwartz 426]

11 hours ago, Der schöne Günther said:

A year back or so, GetIt stopped working for 10 Seattle. I opened a support ticket with Embarcadero. I'm glad they were honest and told me they weren't going to fix it and I should download stuff from Github instead. That really showed it's nice for quickly trying something out, but no one knows when it will stop working.

Is that GitHub repo still active? Does it house all of the libs for all of the releases and updates?

 

We really need something to use as a backup to [cant]GetIt!

[Tom F 83]

EMB has provided a GetIt work-around: https://community.idera.com/developer-tools/b/blog/posts/temporary-10-3-2-getit-server-for-installing-10-3-2-add-on-packages

Edited July 30, 2019 by Tom F

[Der schöne Günther 316]

11 hours ago, David Schwartz said:

Is that GitHub repo still active? Does it house all of the libs for all of the releases and updates?

No Embarcadero "This repo is a copy of our GetIt stuff"-type of thing, I meant the repo of the thing I wanted to use. Clone it, store it offline, never worry again. GetIt is great for quickly trying things out. If you rely on a component, get it from somewhere you can rely on (your own disk).

[David Schwartz 426]

46 minutes ago, Der schöne Günther said:

If you rely on a component, get it from somewhere you can rely on (your own disk).

a lot of stuff on GetIt has nowhere else to get it from. Raize Components, for example, have not been distributed directly since they were incorporated into GetIt. I haven't been able to make GetIt work for 18 months due to persistent errors that have gone unfixed. How am I supposed to get updates any other way? Heck, I don't even know if GetIt distributes source or just the object files! 

 

A lot of my personal projects have become hostage to this Good Idea that has run amok, and if my maintenance agreement expires, they may well disappear -- if Embt refuses to fix problems that occur and you can only get a fix if you have an active maintenance contract, you're basically hosed.

 

Also, while I don't personally use them, there are several libraries that commercial products I've worked on over the past 10 years that rely on other libraries currently distributed only via GetIt.

 

Because newer updates were unavailable last year, we spent quite a bit of time migrating older source to newer Delphi versions.  This was not looked on favorably by Management, because we had just spent a lot of money on updating our licenses and when we contacted Embt, we were only told that there's a problem with GetIt and we'd just have to wait until it was fixed -- "probably the next release".

 

What the heck kind of "support" is THAT when your company has shifted to a business model based around SELLING SUPPORT AND MAINTENANCE CONTRACTS??? It's PATHETIC.

 

Embt has chosen to bury stuff inside of GetIt while refusing to offer ANY KIND OF ALTERNATE MEANS OF DOWNLOADING IT, and it's stuff that's used in a LOT of LEGACY projects.

 

I don't care what anybody's PERSONAL opinion of GetIt is ... it has become the ONLY means of accessing several Delphi-specific libraries that are used in LOTS of LEGACY apps currently being supported by Delphi customers who have active maintenance agreements, and it would be cost-prohibitive to replace some of them.

Edited July 30, 2019 by David Schwartz

[Der schöne Günther 316]

15 minutes ago, David Schwartz said:

a lot of stuff on GetIt has nowhere else to get it from. […] it has become the ONLY means of accessing several Delphi-specific libraries

Sorry, I didn't know. That really paints a different picture of the whole situation.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Der schöne Günther

[Sherlock 663]

So...how is the web installer supposed to work without GetIt? Is it consensus, that the web installer is an unprofessional tool only to be used by hobbyists? I was quite content with the web installers quick installation compared to the ISO installer in the past. Obviously I traded speed for...professionalism? What are the drawbacks of the web installer (apart from the current GetIT "beyond-design-basis event")?

[David Schwartz 426]

19 minutes ago, Sherlock said:

So...how is the web installer supposed to work without GetIt? Is it consensus, that the web installer is an unprofessional tool only to be used by hobbyists? I was quite content with the web installers quick installation compared to the ISO installer in the past. Obviously I traded speed for...professionalism? What are the drawbacks of the web installer (apart from the current GetIT "beyond-design-basis event")?

I'm not a "hobbiest" and the companies I've worked for that have products generating 7-figures annually in sales of products that incorporate libraries locked inside of GetIt are not "hobbyists" either.

 

GetIt SUCKS. I'm not talking about GetIt!

 

Raize Components were never distributed with any kind of an installer other than the one most libraries used, which was something like Wise Installer. (I don't recall exactly, but it was just a setup executable of some kind.)

 

In case you haven't noticed Wise Installer is a ridiculously expensive tool, but it has been used by virtually every significant commercial library and software vendor.

 

Who the heck wrote GetIt? What does it even take to prepare something to run on GetIt? That's all strictly confidential information from Embt.

 

They don't own Wise or any other tool, but they do use an installer for Delphi that's about $4000 or so, even more expensive than Wise. Maybe GetIt is built around that? Who knows? If so, why aren't downloadable SETUP files available?

 

Nobody would be calling GetIt a "toy" if it worked with Wise or any other decent installer. 

 

Clearly, there's a lot of disdain for Getit as far as being a package manager goes. 

 

I still don't know what the heck that has to do with the fact that LOTS of LEGACY PRODUCTS DEPEND on libraries that are ONLY available through this "toy"!

 

I wish people would stop venting about the quality of GetIt in response to those of us who actually DEPEND on the libraries LOCKED INSIDE of GetIt. THAT is the problem I'm trying to address.

 

As I said, I don't give a rip what anybody's PERSONAL OPINION of GetIt is. I want a way to manage the 3rd-party libs currently locked inside of it for times like this when it's broken or offline. Anybody else who has to depend on any of those libs probably feels the same way.

 

If you don't that's fine. But consider what Management of a company thinks when they have to waste one or two man-quarters on updating software for a product that generates several million dollars a year in revenues because the tool they're spending tens of thousands of dollars in supposed "maintenance and support fees" has locked libraries that are critical to their revenue stream inside of a crappy interface that they don't want to support.

Edited July 30, 2019 by David Schwartz

[miab 25]

In addition, GetIt enforces its own installation logic and does not allow to save the installation file.

[Markus Kinzler 174]

Borland ownes InstallAware not EMBT. The old Installer used InstallAware (ISO still does). The new installer looks different.

[Dalija Prasnikar 1396]

28 minutes ago, David Schwartz said:

I still don't know what the heck that has to do with the fact that LOTS of LEGACY PRODUCTS DEPEND on libraries that are ONLY available through this "toy"!

 

I wish people would stop venting about the quality of GetIt in response to those of us who actually DEPEND on the libraries LOCKED INSIDE of GetIt. THAT is the problem I'm trying to address.

I never realized that some libraries were available only through GetIt. This is a problem indeed. I guess that best course of action would be submitting QP report (once it finally gets online) and post the link here so we can vote on it. 

[Cristian Peța 103]

1 hour ago, David Schwartz said:

Heck, I don't even know if GetIt distributes source or just the object files!

In 10.2 I installed DosCommand and copied the sources from ''C:\Users\.....\Documents\Embarcadero\Studio\19.0\CatalogRepository\DOSCommand-1.3" to the 10.3 and installed manually.