Running the IDE in a VM on Mac Book Pro?

[PeterPanettone 158]

I am planning to buy a Mac Book Pro 15" with With Windows 10 Pro 64bit on Parallels and install the newest Delphi IDE in that Windows 10 Parallels VM.

 

Are there any (compatibility) problems when running the IDE in a VM on Mac Book Pro?

 

Any hints or recommendations?

Edited August 21, 2019 by PeterPanettone

[Sherlock 663]

Got the same setup, only with an older model (2015). No problems here. If you plan on developing for iOS, keep in mind, that you may keep your projects in the "Documents" folder from the Mac-share, but you'll have to compile twice. Every other compile will fail. I have no idea why, and no idea why it works the second time around. I'm just glad it does 😉

 

[PeterPanettone 158]

 

 

 

 

2

20 minutes ago, Sherlock said:

Got the same setup, only with an older model (2015). No problems here. If you plan on developing for iOS, keep in mind, that you may keep your projects in the "Documents" folder from the Mac-share, but you'll have to compile twice. Every other compile will fail. I have no idea why, and no idea why it works the second time around. I'm just glad it does 😉

 

I am new to Mac. What is the Mac-share? Is that outside of the Windows 10 VM? So can the IDE inside the VM save/load files to/from outside the VM? What do you mean with "compile twice"?

[Sherlock 663]

The user folder from the Mac environment can be shared into the Windows user folder. Allowing for a more...seamless integration. This also means, that the windows  user folder is not part of the VMs disk, it is outside of the VM.

Regarding the "compile twice": On the first compile of a project I will always get:

Quote

MSBUILD : error E2597: E2597 ld: file not found: L
c:\program files (x86)\embarcadero\studio\20.0\Bin\CodeGear.Delphi.Targets(402,5): error F2588: F2588 Linker-Fehlercode: 1 ($00000001)

The second then works just fine. The cycle then repeats.

 

It is possible to get around this issue by using folders local to the VM, but I prefer this, as it keeps the changes to the VM file at a minimum, which is good for backing up and creating memory saving snapshots.

[Rollo62 539]

This is maybe interesting

[David Schwartz 430]

I have used Delphi on Macs since the first iMacs were released that used Intel's chips in 2004 or so.

 

I first used Parallels and stuck with it for several years. I don't care for their support; I usually need problems solved NOW, not in a day or two. The Parallels support team is located in India, and it takes 12 hours minimum to get a reply from where I live, and they rarely understand what I'm referring to. They have frequently asked me to diagnose the problem myself or send them a copy of the VM. Yeah, right. I don't think so.

 

I got tired of having to pay them a fee to upgrade every time MacOS was updated, and switched to VMWare Fusion. That worked very well, and they offer free updates each time MacOS is updated. They don't add unnecessary crap just to force an annual upgrade on you the way Parallels does. (None of the features added to Parallels over the years were ever of any value to me.)

 

A couple of years ago I switched to VirtualBox, and I'm very happy with it. No more upgrade fees, and it does get updated far more frequently than the other two.

 

I have also tried different configurations of things, including keeping the source files on the Mac's HD and compiling everything inside the VM. That seems like a Good Idea, until you realize it slows things down by about an order of magnitude due to inefficiencies of going through the firewall between the VM and the host.

 

I strip out or disable all anti-virus and scanner software from Windows in the VM, and as a result it usually runs noticeably faster than a similarly-configured native Windows machine. Why would anybody want to buy a high-powered machine then deliberately set it up to run slower for no particular benefit? I don't check email or surf the internet from within my VM. I even download most files from the host side.

 

In all the years I've been working with Delphi inside of a VM without any sort of anti-virus or other similar stuff, I've only once encountered an infection of some kind. It was very easy to deal with. I simply deleted the VM, reloaded the most recent backup from by backup drive, turned it on, and copied back the latest source files from my host. And that's how simple it should be to deal with ransomware viruses, too.

 

It's really easy to copy your files from inside the VM to a folder on the host when you finish your work for the day. Or check everything into a git repo on the host or in the cloud. Or ... or ... or ... there are lots of options that don't slow down your work or create a problem. 

 

I suspect your need to double-build is due to some kind of file locking or delays that occur between the VM and the host. Perhaps a temp file isn't being deleted in a timely fashion. The semantics of a Unix file system and the Windows file system are not 100% compatible. The way you're using things, you're exacerbating any subtle incompatibilities that may exist, not to mention slowing down your builds significantly.

 

Honestly, I have never run into that double-build problem.

[Dave Nottage 563]

My 2c:

 

I have a MacBook Pro, and for Windows, VirtualBox has served me very well for > 7 years.

 

I also use Parallels, however only for macOS VMs, because VirtualBox has been lagging behind in supporting newer versions of macOS. I use macOS VMs on macOS to test Delphi (and other software) against macOS betas and Xcode betas 🙂

 

 

[David Schwartz 430]

1 hour ago, Dave Nottage said:

My 2c:

 

I have a MacBook Pro, and for Windows, VirtualBox has served me very well for > 7 years.

 

I also use Parallels, however only for macOS VMs, because VirtualBox has been lagging behind in supporting newer versions of macOS. I use macOS VMs on macOS to test Delphi (and other software) against macOS betas and Xcode betas 🙂

 

 

I didn't know you could install MacOS in a VM. And I thought it's only supposed to be run on Apple hardware.

[Markus Kinzler 174]

Quote

I didn't know you could install MacOS in a VM.

It's allowed only on macOS hw with a macOS host.

[Dave Nottage 563]

38 minutes ago, David Schwartz said:

And I thought it's only supposed to be run on Apple hardware

Correct, however I did specify that I have a Mac.

 

For a while I thought "well, that's ridiculous.. I have the Mac already, why would I want to run it in a VM?" 😉

[Rollo62 539]

5 hours ago, Dave Nottage said:

My 2c:

 

I have a MacBook Pro, and for Windows, VirtualBox has served me very well for > 7 years.

 

I also use Parallels, however only for macOS VMs, because VirtualBox has been lagging behind in supporting newer versions of macOS. I use macOS VMs on macOS to test Delphi (and other software) against macOS betas and Xcode betas 🙂

 

 

I use VmWare successfully for many years now.
Only in one older version I faced some issues, otherwise runs w/o any flaws, support is OK (although not "NOW", I'm used to wait some hours).

 

One main reasin is also that VmWare supports all platforms (Win, Mac, Linux, Cloud), and the VM images are interchangeable.

I didn't wanted to fumble around with 2-3 VM parties, but only with one instead.
The small differences between the 3 major players in performance or features are acceptable noise IMHO.

 

[PeterPanettone 158]

Sorry for this question, but I am really asking myself whether the Apple community is some sort of mental institution and whether Apple can be a reliable business and technology partner? That's because yesterday I went to the local Apple store to ask a few technical questions about the Apple device I am planning to buy. But the employees there were technically incompetent. They couldn't even tell me the name of the current Mac OS (Mojave!). Then I asked for the connectivity with Windows networks, with computer displays, etc., but they couldn't give me competent answers. One Apple store employee made a rather crazy impression. So is Apple reliable and can Apple be trusted?

Edited August 22, 2019 by PeterPanettone

[John Kouraklis 94]

Although I moved away from Apple a couple of years ago, it still makes reliable but overpriced machines.

 

It's the elitism and the active crusade to pin you down in their ecosystem that played a good part in leaving them.

 

And not to mention, their world view: for Apple the whole universe is an iphone

[PeterPanettone 158]

A competent person from the PC workstation area told me: "If you buy a Mac Book Pro (15", 4 TB SSD, 4 GB graphics card, 32 GB RAM) today for 6,000 Euro you will have to replace it maximally in 3 years (and pay another 6,000 Euro) because the hardware will be out-of-date".  Is that true?

Edited August 22, 2019 by PeterPanettone

[Markus Kinzler 174]

If that's true then it's true for all hardware from the competitors, too.

[PeterPanettone 158]

3 minutes ago, Markus Kinzler said:

If that's true then it's true for all hardware from the competitors, too.

Yes, but the PC workstation hardware can be easily upgraded while the Mac Book Pro cannot.

[Rollo62 539]

46 minutes ago, PeterPanettone said:

A competent person from the PC workstation area told me: "If you buy a Mac Book Pro (15", 4 TB SSD, 4 GB graphics card, 32 GB RAM) today for 6,000 Euro you will have to replace it maximally in 3 years (and pay another 6,000 Euro) because the hardware will be out-of-date".  Is that true?

1. thats clearly too much, you shuld look at a different store.  Maybe the big price comes from 4TB SSD disk ?

2. buy the last before model, not the latest

3. keyboard is crap, but usable (see many noted in the web)

4. traxckpad is great, although I liked the more small version in older MacBooks (also many notes in the web)

5. Reliablity and quality is high, performance is high

6. Their safety habits suck, they overdue "safety" handling in every place (membership, dev. certificates, shut down devices aft. 3x wrong entry, API),
    leaving no room for any custom deviation or settings, you have to follow the "Apple way", or you're out

7. I run my last MAcBook Pro still everyday, after 6 years, same speed, same quality.

 

Quote

but I am really asking myself whether the Apple community is some sort of mental institution and whether Apple can be a reliable business and technology partner?

Apple is no normal business, but a religion.

https://www.worldreligionnews.com/religion-news/is-apple-a-religion
But  their high status brokes down a lot recently, when they did big failures in MacBook Pro design, hitting their loyal customers in the face.
Also a lot to read about in the web.

 

But nevertheless, MacBook Pro is definitively among the 3 top notebooks, I would guess.

Don't worry.

Use large and fast SSD disk (I use 2TB, but its terrible expensive)
Use large and fast memory (your 32GB should be on the safe side), I use 32GB too, and I'm able to run several VM machines at same time

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Rollo62

[PeterPanettone 158]

57 minutes ago, Rollo62 said:

Maybe the big price comes from 4TB SSD disk ?

Definitely (from the official Apple configurator website)

 

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by PeterPanettone

[Bill Meyer 337]

1 hour ago, Rollo62 said:

Apple is no normal business, but a religion.

https://www.worldreligionnews.com/religion-news/is-apple-a-religion

I have believed at least since the original Mac arrived that people who buy Apple gear defend it as much as anything to rationalize why they paid twice what I did -- or more -- for equivalent power. Now I grant that Apple has doe some very good design work, but when I consider a laptop, I see before me an expensive toy. And no matter who made it. Computer hardware has a short half-life. Laptops have the shortest, other than the life of mobile devices.

A laptop, even a Macbook, may be a good investment, but the value is more in the impression it makes than in the intrinsic capabilities of the device.

[Rollo62 539]

I only rationalize this by being able to do Apple iOS / Mac Development, to get back from their also higher rated AppStore.

There is no other reason, Macos is really behind Windows IMHO in so many ways (sorry only my opinion as a long trained Windows user).

Mostly I miss the openess and the informativeness of the Windows system, not much is hiding behind artificial walls.

[Sherlock 663]

That is indeed a steep price. You should consider using external SSDs via USB3 to compensate for small built in drives. Saves you lots of money. Secondly don't buy it now because the next MacBook Pro is looming around the corner (Sep. 10th). That one wont be cheaper, but this one just might.

Then for development purposes only a the smalles Mac suffices. Connect to it through LAN and have it sign your Apps, finished.  You don't have to have an expensive MacBook just to develop Apps.

 

Finally I don't expect more competence from the "Geniuses" or the common sales folk at the Apple store than from any other sakes guy at an electronics outlet like MediMarkt and such.

[Attila Kovacs 631]

https://9to5mac.com/2017/08/10/macbook-pro-ssd-capacity-samsung-4tb/

[John Kouraklis 94]

2 hours ago, Rollo62 said:

But  their high status brokes down a lot recently, when they did big failures in MacBook Pro design, hitting their loyal customers in the face.

Yes, and when they ditched some amazing apps for professionals like Aperture

[Rollo62 539]

24 minutes ago, Sherlock said:

Secondly don't buy it now because the next MacBook Pro is looming around the corner (Sep. 10th). That one wont be cheaper, but this one just might.

Yes, I would wait for that too.
But not to get it, but because the older models get cheaper.
For newest model I would always wait a reasonable time, to find out some possible systematic issues.

Apple has a lot of issues in their newest products recently, woth to wait until production is stable.
Consider the MacBook form factor stayed same since a century now, but putting more and more chips stuff and power into it.
Physics also might have its limits.

 

My older MacBook can went quite hot at certain spots on the housing, this incresed since I guess update to Sierra.
Never made any issue, but as I said: You cannot cheat physic laws.
 

[John Kouraklis 94]

55 minutes ago, Bill Meyer said:

Now I grant that Apple has doe some very good design work, but when I consider a laptop, I see before me an expensive toy.

We're not in '90s anymore. There are many beautiful and powerful laptops out there. The competition is high

 

Apple seems not to get this at all