Do bug fix patches really require active subscription?

[David Heffernan 2345]

Reading Marco's article on the recently released patches for 10.4.2 I noticed this text:

Quote

The patches [...] are available to active update subscription customers

Is that right? If you don't keep an active update subscription, you aren't entitled to bug fixes?

[sakura 45]

4 minutes ago, David Heffernan said:

Is that right? If you don't keep an active update subscription, you aren't entitled to bug fixes?

That's their money printing press, yes 😐 

Edited May 4, 2021 by sakura

[Der schöne Günther 316]

I think this used to be different.

But judging from Lars' screenshot, it really looks like this is the current implementation:

[Stefan Glienke 2002]

I think at least in Germany the court would say otherwise - keyword: Nachbesserung und Gewährleistung

[Lars Fosdal 1792]

I am on active update subscription. 

Can you even have 10.4.2 without one, considering that if you just bought 10.4.1 or 10.4.2 you would be within the one year subscription?

[David Heffernan 2345]

12 minutes ago, Lars Fosdal said:

I am on active update subscription. 

Can you even have 10.4.2 without one, considering that if you just bought 10.4.1 or 10.4.2 you would be within the one year subscription?

You are on subscription when 10.4.2 lands, and then the subscription expires a month later.

[Lars Fosdal 1792]

Hmm, yeah, that's a conundrum.  A better pattern would be that your included subscription follows the cycle of the major version - i.e. 10.4.x.

[Dalija Prasnikar 1396]

23 minutes ago, Lars Fosdal said:

Hmm, yeah, that's a conundrum.  A better pattern would be that your included subscription follows the cycle of the major version - i.e. 10.4.x.

Yes. That would also solve issues for people using trial version, bumping into some problem and then not having the ability to properly test trial version because they cannot install patch.

 

I seriously cannot imagine buying something if I cannot properly test it. If I am already Delphi user and I want to upgrade, then maybe but in such cases I already have some other reasons for upgrading.

[Fr0sT.Brutal 900]

59 minutes ago, dummzeuch said:

If I remember correctly Embarcadero don't like us posting any direct links.

If I understand correctly nobody likes to be forced to pay for bugfixes for stuff they already bought.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, dummzeuch said:

If I remember correctly Embarcadero don't like us posting any direct links.

If the link is outside of any login barrier it's part of the actual "internet" and can be found with google.

Trying to ban people from accessing (such links) it is like offering candy to a kid and the pulling it back when the smile comes on it's face.

 

If you have to login to access the link, then there should be no problem re-publishing it or the security setup is nil.

[dummzeuch 1505]

2 minutes ago, Dany Marmur said:

If the link is outside of any login barrier it's part of the actual "internet" and can be found with google.

Trying to ban people from accessing (such links) it is like offering candy to a kid and the pulling it back when the smile comes on it's face.

 

If you have to login to access the link, then there should be no problem re-publishing it or the security setup is nil.

Google can't find files that aren't referenced anywhere (it doesn't work with magic), so if the links are only available from pages that cannot be indexed, it can't find the links, regardless whether the files themselves are available without a logon.

 

There are several files on my homepage that you won't find in Google. But everybody I provide with the link can download them without login. It's not highly secure, as it would be possible to guess the urls or to brute force them but it's secure enough for my purpose. Maybe Embarcadero thinks similar?

 

It's convenient to be able to use a download link on a different computer than the one used to login. I usually download the ISOs for new Delphi releases with wget from a Linux server rather than having to keep my computer running until the download finishes.

[FPiette 382]

7 minutes ago, Dany Marmur said:

if the link is outside of any login barrier it's part of the actual "internet" and can be found with google.

That is at least partly wrong. Google can found a page or file only if the is a link to it or it is submitted to Google or is a the file each website has for all robots. Google has no way to find the existence of a file not mentioned anywhere. In HTTP, a directory cannot be listed.

Now that the link has been mentioned in this forum, it could be indexed by Google (No idea if this forum is indexed by Google).

[Guest]

Ok, ok!

 

Google cannot find everything, very true. I was too fast.

It was the "notion" that any accessible link w/o login is part of the "Internet" was my point.

 

I stand corrected. Sry Google.

[Remy Lebeau 1393]

7 hours ago, David Heffernan said:

If you don't keep an active update subscription, you aren't entitled to bug fixes?

https://www.embarcadero.com/update-subscription

Quote

Can I obtain updates and hotfixes without a subscription?

An active update subscription is the only way to obtain updates and hotfixes.

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Remy Lebeau

[Guest]

That is just... blatantly... i don't know how to... It's not... Sigh.

[Stefan Glienke 2002]

@Remy Lebeau Selective perception?

 

 

If a compiler is not a critical product function I don't know what is.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Stefan Glienke

[Nigel Thomas 35]

16 hours ago, David Heffernan said:

Reading Marco's article on the recently released patches for 10.4.2 I noticed this text:

Is that right? If you don't keep an active update subscription, you aren't entitled to bug fixes?

Marco also states, in the same blog post, that the patches will be made available in the download portal.

 

I found them at my.embarcadero.com and cc.embarcadero.com/reg/delphi (although the latter is painfully slow). I no longer have an active subscription, it expired with Berlin 10.1, but I am able to download these patches (not that I need to).

[Daniel 417]

About the discussion of deep-links:

Indeed they are not welcome. Embarcadero has its download-portals and can make the files available there. The fact that the files can be downloaded without further protection does not mean that we will publish these links here as long as there are official sources for them.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Daniel said:

The fact that the files can be downloaded without further protection does not mean that we will publish these links here as long as there are official sources for them.

I do not really understand. So if there is an official source; publish that.

If there is no official source, then it's ok to publish the link??

 

Could you re-write that in pseudo-code? Perhaps i'll be able to understand 🙂

[Daniel 417]

In short: We try to respect the intentions of Embarcadero. And their intentions are quite clear - they want the users to use either GetIt or their download-portal located at my.embarcadero.com.

But some patches for very ancient versions of Delphi (version 6 for example) are floating around the internet. And although their copyright is still clearly defined - it is not "public domain" - Embarcadero considered it the lesser of two evils if customers were helped with a direct link.