Brandon Staggs 350 Posted Monday at 07:03 PM 20 minutes ago, David Heffernan said: Saying X does not, a priori, make X OK It is a priori "OK" because they are a private company which can decide how to spend their R&D money and we are free agents that can decide whether or not to subscribe. I don't know a single Delphi developer who doesn't have a heap of legitimate complaints about the product, but I don't know how this is anything other than a step in the right direction. Is it enough? That's up to each subscriber to decide. I also was pretty harsh on them for packing the 64-bit compiler as a top-tier option prior to this (unavailable to Pro level subscribers), but seen in the light of them trying to work their way to a stable 64-bit IDE, I get it. 1 Share this post Link to post
Brian Evans 112 Posted Monday at 07:35 PM 7 minutes ago, Lajos Juhász said: The only exception if you are working with databases that now ship only 64 bit client libraries. Most, if not all, of the modern databases has discontinued the 32 bit client libraries. Two of the big ones - Microsoft SQL Server and Oracle - still provide and support 32-bit clients. The databases with per server and/or per client license fees have more resources and incentives to keep that support going. Share this post Link to post
David Heffernan 2401 Posted Monday at 08:36 PM 1 hour ago, ToddFrankson said: So you didn't, and therefore you don't know what they stated about the 64bit IDE, yet you complain..... I mean, I did, and I read the what's new. As I said, I think it's pretty poor that they can release software that is so far from being functional. Share this post Link to post
David Heffernan 2401 Posted Monday at 08:39 PM 1 hour ago, Brandon Staggs said: It is a priori "OK" because they are a private company which can decide how to spend their R&D money and we are free agents that can decide whether or not to subscribe. Sure. I can choose not to be impressed. 1 hour ago, Brandon Staggs said: I also was pretty harsh on them for packing the 64-bit compiler as a top-tier option prior to this (unavailable to Pro level subscribers), The Win64 bit compiler was available for pro from initial release, XE2 Share this post Link to post
Dalija Prasnikar 1447 Posted Monday at 08:42 PM Just now, David Heffernan said: The Win64 bit compiler was available for pro from initial release, XE2 Yes, but the new 64-bit compiler is about compiler bitness, not platform. That means that compiler is no longer 32-bit process and can use all available memory on the system. 4 1 Share this post Link to post
shineworld 83 Posted yesterday at 07:14 AM I have always used and will always continue to use Delphi, as long as I am allowed in the company. Other languages and IDE environments have been added but it will be out of affection, I find the Delphi one very friendly, complex to the point and with things that are really needed. Of course, this depends a lot on the scope of the software, but in mine it is perfectly apt, where other environments become scattershot (too many things and not congruent with each other). What I admire about the Delphi RAD developers is their dedication. It has been dozens of years, that despite the fact that for many it is an outdated environment and language that they are dedicated to keeping it active, to meet new needs, limited as they all are by budget problems. But Delphi is still alive, and I easily shame the final products made by other colleagues with “newer” environments. Like everyone I would like to have more and more, and think that every problem it has can be magically solved in a short time, but you know, that is not the case for any of us who develop code for a living. You always look for a compromise between investment availability and goals to be achieved. 2 1 Share this post Link to post
dummzeuch 1583 Posted yesterday at 07:52 AM 12 hours ago, Lajos Juhász said: The only exception if you are working with databases that now ship only 64 bit client libraries. Most, if not all, of the modern databases has discontinued the 32 bit client libraries. You can continue using the 32 bit IDE to compile and debug 64 bit applications. Share this post Link to post
Lajos Juhász 316 Posted yesterday at 08:20 AM 20 minutes ago, dummzeuch said: You can continue using the 32 bit IDE to compile and debug 64 bit applications. Yes you can, but can not use the 32 bit IDE if the database has only 64 bit client library to test SQL statements, create fields in the designer. Share this post Link to post
Roger Cigol 125 Posted yesterday at 08:43 AM 11 minutes ago, Lajos Juhász said: Yes you can, but can not use the 32 bit IDE if the database has only 64 bit client library to test SQL statements, create fields in the designer. And yes, the viewing of data at design time using a 64bit database does work with 12.3 (certainly with 64bit versions of postgreSQL which is what I work with). The 64bit IDE is a first step. Of course we would all like it to work perfectly and to have had it a year ago but at least this shows it is coming. I am very much in favour of Embarcadero releasing stuff with limited functionality but which works rather than trying to rush too much out too quickly and therefore it all being very buggy. They have gone down this route in the past but seem to have learnt that this puts customers off. They do now seem to be releasing smaller changes at a time but smaller changes that work. I think this is much better for us users. 6 Share this post Link to post
Lars Fosdal 1827 Posted yesterday at 10:21 AM Personally, I'd favour work that improves debugging - both in 32- and 64-bit. That said, even an incomplete 64-bit IDE is a step forward, and I am excited to see what can be achieved with the new compiler as it matures. Share this post Link to post
Brandon Staggs 350 Posted 17 hours ago (edited) 21 hours ago, David Heffernan said: The Win64 bit compiler was available for pro from initial release, XE2 Obviously I was referring to the 64-bit compiler that was added in 12.2 for the Enterprise level, not the 32-bit compiler that can target 64-bit builds that we have had all these years. Edited 17 hours ago by Brandon Staggs Share this post Link to post
David Heffernan 2401 Posted 17 hours ago Just now, Brandon Staggs said: Obviously I was referring to the 64-bit compiler that was added in 12.2 for the Enterprise level, not the 32-bit compiler that can target 64-bit builds that we have had all these years. Yes, silly me! Sorry. Share this post Link to post
Mark NZ 8 Posted 11 hours ago 14 hours ago, Lars Fosdal said: Personally, I'd favour work that improves debugging - both in 32- and 64-bit. That said, even an incomplete 64-bit IDE is a step forward, and I am excited to see what can be achieved with the new compiler as it matures. I agree, followed by LSP then the IDE - a huge FIXES focus based approach would be good for a few releases. It's a bit hard for me to tell how well LSP is working as am doing most pas file editing using VSCode with LSP and CoPilot, anecdotally I think LSP works better there. Could be that LSP is okay and it's the Delphi IDE failing when I'm having problems with code jumping, editing etc Share this post Link to post
David Heffernan 2401 Posted 8 hours ago 3 hours ago, Mark NZ said: I agree, followed by LSP then the IDE - a huge FIXES focus based approach would be good for a few releases. It feels like most releases in the past 5-10 years have been "quality focused" releases. In other words, they are already doing this. How is it going? Share this post Link to post
PeaShooter_OMO 25 Posted 4 hours ago I assume Delphi itself is a large project and surely Embarcadero must be seeing the same LSP issues we are seeing while using Delphi. Are they? I just wonder sometimes. Share this post Link to post
Perpeto 5 Posted 3 hours ago 1 hour ago, PeaShooter_OMO said: I assume Delphi itself is a large project and surely Embarcadero must be seeing the same LSP issues we are seeing while using Delphi. Are they? I just wonder sometimes. If you follow this frequently commented bug report, it doesn't seem so: https://embt.atlassian.net/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/RSS-1887 Share this post Link to post
dummzeuch 1583 Posted 2 hours ago 4 minutes ago, Perpeto said: If you follow this frequently commented bug report, it doesn't seem so: https://embt.atlassian.net/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/RSS-1887 Oddly enough code completion stopped working for me on a large project in Delphi 10.2 while it works fine in Delphi 2007 and Delphi 12.2 and now 12.3. So it depends on the project in question. Share this post Link to post
PeaShooter_OMO 25 Posted 1 hour ago 1 hour ago, dummzeuch said: Oddly enough code completion stopped working for me on a large project in Delphi 10.2 while it works fine in Delphi 2007 and Delphi 12.2 and now 12.3. So it depends on the project in question. Embarcadero asking for reproducible examples and not going out to customers with the same issues wil make sure we will have this nonsense for years to come. Share this post Link to post
Patrick PREMARTIN 111 Posted 1 hour ago Just now, PeaShooter_OMO said: Embarcadero asking for reproducible examples and not going out to customers with the same issues wil make sure we will have this nonsense for years to come. You are a developer, can you give us your magic method to fix unreproducible bugs ? Share this post Link to post
PeaShooter_OMO 25 Posted 1 hour ago Just now, Patrick PREMARTIN said: You are a developer, can you give us your magic method to fix unreproducible bugs ? Spending multiple days at a customer experiencing the issues will give Embarcadero a better understanding than sitting and waiting for someone to present a reproducible example. They can take their dev tools along and capture all the logs their hearts desire. Share this post Link to post
Roger Cigol 125 Posted 1 hour ago 9 minutes ago, PeaShooter_OMO said: Spending multiple days at a customer experiencing the issues will give Embarcadero a better understanding than sitting and waiting for someone to present a reproducible example I think you are being a little unrealistic here in terms of business costings. Share this post Link to post
PeaShooter_OMO 25 Posted 1 hour ago Just now, Roger Cigol said: I think you are being a little unrealistic here in terms of business costings. Possibly but for an issue on a major feature of Delphi that has come for decades already one would expect hard steps to be taken. If it was easy fix it would have been already and seeing that it is hard to fix it would require extraordinary steps. If the steps that were taken already does not work then one would expect another approach. 1 Share this post Link to post