Delphi 12.3 is available

[Brandon Staggs 354]

20 minutes ago, David Heffernan said:

Saying X does not, a priori, make X OK

It is a priori "OK" because they are a private company which can decide how to spend their R&D money and we are free agents that can decide whether or not to subscribe.

 

I don't know a single Delphi developer who doesn't have a heap of legitimate complaints about the product, but I don't know how this is anything other than a step in the right direction. Is it enough? That's up to each subscriber to decide.

 

I also was pretty harsh on them for packing the 64-bit compiler as a top-tier option prior to this (unavailable to Pro level subscribers), but seen in the light of them trying to work their way to a stable 64-bit IDE, I get it.

[Brian Evans 112]

7 minutes ago, Lajos Juhász said:

 

The only exception if you are working with databases that now ship only 64 bit client libraries. Most, if not all, of the modern databases has discontinued the 32 bit client libraries.

Two of the big ones - Microsoft SQL Server and Oracle - still provide and support 32-bit clients. The databases with per server and/or per client license fees have more resources and incentives to keep that support going.

[David Heffernan 2401]

1 hour ago, ToddFrankson said:

So you didn't, and therefore you don't know what they stated about  the 64bit IDE, yet you complain.....

I mean, I did, and I read the what's new. As I said, I think it's pretty poor that they can release software that is so far from being functional. 

[David Heffernan 2401]

1 hour ago, Brandon Staggs said:

It is a priori "OK" because they are a private company which can decide how to spend their R&D money and we are free agents that can decide whether or not to subscribe.

Sure. I can choose not to be impressed. 

 

1 hour ago, Brandon Staggs said:

 

I also was pretty harsh on them for packing the 64-bit compiler as a top-tier option prior to this (unavailable to Pro level subscribers), 

The Win64 bit compiler was available for pro from initial release, XE2

[Dalija Prasnikar 1447]

Just now, David Heffernan said:

The Win64 bit compiler was available for pro from initial release, XE2

Yes, but the new 64-bit compiler is about compiler bitness, not platform. That means that compiler is no longer 32-bit process and can use all available memory on the system. 

[shineworld 83]

I have always used and will always continue to use Delphi, as long as I am allowed in the company.

Other languages and IDE environments have been added but it will be out of affection, I find the Delphi one very friendly, complex to the point and with things that are really needed.

Of course, this depends a lot on the scope of the software, but in mine it is perfectly apt, where other environments become scattershot (too many things and not congruent with each other).

What I admire about the Delphi RAD developers is their dedication.

It has been dozens of years, that despite the fact that for many it is an outdated environment and language that they are dedicated to keeping it active, to meet new needs, limited as they all are by budget problems.

But Delphi is still alive, and I easily shame the final products made by other colleagues with “newer” environments.

Like everyone I would like to have more and more, and think that every problem it has can be magically solved in a short time, but you know, that is not the case for any of us who develop code for a living.

You always look for a compromise between investment availability and goals to be achieved.

 

[dummzeuch 1585]

12 hours ago, Lajos Juhász said:

The only exception if you are working with databases that now ship only 64 bit client libraries. Most, if not all, of the modern databases has discontinued the 32 bit client libraries.

You can continue using the 32 bit IDE to compile and debug 64 bit applications.

[Lajos Juhász 316]

20 minutes ago, dummzeuch said:

You can continue using the 32 bit IDE to compile and debug 64 bit applications.

Yes you can, but can not use the 32 bit IDE if the database has only 64 bit client library to test SQL statements, create fields in the designer.

[Roger Cigol 126]

11 minutes ago, Lajos Juhász said:

Yes you can, but can not use the 32 bit IDE if the database has only 64 bit client library to test SQL statements, create fields in the designer.

And yes, the viewing of data at design time using a 64bit database does work with 12.3 (certainly with 64bit versions of postgreSQL which is what I work with). The 64bit IDE is a first step. Of course we would all like it to work perfectly and to have had it a year ago but at least this shows it is coming. I am very much in favour of Embarcadero releasing stuff with limited functionality but which works rather than trying to rush too much out too quickly and therefore it all being very buggy. They have gone down this route in the past but seem to have learnt that this puts customers off. They do now seem to be releasing smaller changes at a time but smaller changes that work. I think this is much better for us users.

[Lars Fosdal 1827]

Personally, I'd favour work that improves debugging - both in 32- and 64-bit.

That said, even an incomplete 64-bit IDE is a step forward, and I am excited to see what can be achieved with the new compiler as it matures.

[Brandon Staggs 354]

21 hours ago, David Heffernan said:

The Win64 bit compiler was available for pro from initial release, XE2

Obviously I was referring to the 64-bit compiler that was added in 12.2 for the Enterprise level, not the 32-bit compiler that can target 64-bit builds that we have had all these years.

Edited yesterday at 06:34 PM by Brandon Staggs

[David Heffernan 2401]

Just now, Brandon Staggs said:

Obviously I was referring to the 64-bit compiler that was added in 12.2 for the Enterprise level, not the 32-bit compiler that can target 64-bit builds that we have had all these years.

Yes, silly me! Sorry. 

[Mark NZ 8]

14 hours ago, Lars Fosdal said:

Personally, I'd favour work that improves debugging - both in 32- and 64-bit.

That said, even an incomplete 64-bit IDE is a step forward, and I am excited to see what can be achieved with the new compiler as it matures.

I agree, followed by LSP then the IDE - a huge FIXES focus based approach would be good for a few releases.
It's a bit hard for me to tell how well LSP is working as am doing most pas file editing using VSCode with LSP and CoPilot, anecdotally I think LSP works better there.  Could be that LSP is okay and it's the Delphi IDE failing when I'm having problems with code jumping, editing etc

 

[David Heffernan 2401]

3 hours ago, Mark NZ said:

I agree, followed by LSP then the IDE - a huge FIXES focus based approach would be good for a few releases.

It feels like most releases in the past 5-10 years have been "quality focused" releases. In other words, they are already doing this. How is it going? 

[PeaShooter_OMO 27]

I assume Delphi itself is a large project and surely Embarcadero must be seeing the same LSP issues we are seeing while using Delphi. Are they? I just wonder sometimes.

[Perpeto 5]

1 hour ago, PeaShooter_OMO said:

I assume Delphi itself is a large project and surely Embarcadero must be seeing the same LSP issues we are seeing while using Delphi. Are they? I just wonder sometimes.

If you follow this frequently commented bug report, it doesn't seem so: https://embt.atlassian.net/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/RSS-1887

[dummzeuch 1585]

4 minutes ago, Perpeto said:

If you follow this frequently commented bug report, it doesn't seem so: https://embt.atlassian.net/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/RSS-1887

Oddly enough code completion stopped working for me on a large project in Delphi 10.2 while it works fine in Delphi 2007 and Delphi 12.2 and now 12.3. So it depends on the project in question.

[PeaShooter_OMO 27]

1 hour ago, dummzeuch said:

Oddly enough code completion stopped working for me on a large project in Delphi 10.2 while it works fine in Delphi 2007 and Delphi 12.2 and now 12.3. So it depends on the project in question.

Embarcadero asking for reproducible examples and not going out to customers with the same issues wil make sure we will have this nonsense for years to come.

[Patrick PREMARTIN 111]

Just now, PeaShooter_OMO said:

Embarcadero asking for reproducible examples and not going out to customers with the same issues wil make sure we will have this nonsense for years to come.

You are a developer, can you give us your magic method to fix unreproducible bugs ?

[PeaShooter_OMO 27]

Just now, Patrick PREMARTIN said:

You are a developer, can you give us your magic method to fix unreproducible bugs ?

Spending multiple days at a customer experiencing the issues will give Embarcadero a better understanding than sitting and waiting for someone to present a reproducible example. They can take their dev tools along and capture all the logs their hearts desire.

[Roger Cigol 126]

9 minutes ago, PeaShooter_OMO said:

Spending multiple days at a customer experiencing the issues will give Embarcadero a better understanding than sitting and waiting for someone to present a reproducible example

I think you are being a little unrealistic here in terms of business costings.

[PeaShooter_OMO 27]

Just now, Roger Cigol said:

I think you are being a little unrealistic here in terms of business costings. 

Possibly but for an issue on a major feature of Delphi that has come for decades already one would expect hard steps to be taken. If it was easy fix it would have been already and seeing that it is hard to fix it would require extraordinary steps. If the steps that were taken already does not work then one would expect another approach.

[Sherlock 675]

1 hour ago, Roger Cigol said:

I think you are being a little unrealistic here in terms of business costings.

There are always remote connection possibilities as a compromise. I firmly believe an unfixed product can cost more than a trip for two guys, that know their stuff, to find out what the hell is going on.

[Brandon Staggs 354]

4 hours ago, Perpeto said:

If you follow this frequently commented bug report, it doesn't seem so: https://embt.atlassian.net/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/RSS-1887

Delphi 12.0, .1, and .2 have been especially hard for us with our million+ line project. 80% of the time Find Declaration doesn't work, and the other 20% of the time it seems random which way works -- CTRL+G or CTRL+Click, sometimes one will work when the other one doesn't.

 

We of course cannot email the "crown jewels" entire proprietary project to Emba for them to test with. I understand they need reproducible examples, but they have also said during the release webinar that they are aware LSP doesn't work acceptably and will be replacing the current system with a completely new approach in 13. Well, this is a fundamental, basic function of any IDE, and personally I question this decision to add new features of any kind while something so basic is known to be non-functional for so many users. But, trying to be fair, I'm sure not all of their developers are qualified to work on LSP so they will naturally be focused on multiple areas at once.

 

I can guess at why LSP has such a hard time with our code base, and I have spent a lot of time trying to remove legacy anti-patterns and cleaning out uses clauses, etc, but in the end, it all compiles just fine, so it should not be a problem for the editor to navigate. An editor should be able to navigate and offer functional code completion with broken code, let alone code that compiles without issue.

[Anders Melander 1942]

On 3/18/2025 at 8:14 AM, shineworld said:

What I admire about the Delphi RAD developers is their dedication.

Yes. Both of them. Very dedicated.

 

3 hours ago, Patrick PREMARTIN said:

You are a developer, can you give us your magic method to fix unreproducible bugs ?

If they wanted it fixed I'm sure it would get fixed. It's just a question of resources and priorities. They haven't got them so they've prioritized something else.

 

I have consistently been able to get the IDE hung beyond recovery since Delphi 10. I know exactly what to do, and therefore I also know what not to do. It's pretty much muscle-memory by now. But I haven't reported it because it's no longer a problem for me and I would rather they use their limited resources on something that I can't work around. Improving the compiler, for example.