D11 - A bridge too far.. :-(

[Ian Branch 128]

Hi Team,

At the instruction of my main Customer I am reverting to D10.4.2.

They, and I for that matter, are tired of dealing with screens/forms/components not showing correctly where they did in 10.4.

I start D11 with the '/highdpi/unaware' switch  but am still having issues.

As I don't need a very disgruntled Customer, 'his wish is my command'.

I will reconsider after D11.1 is released, and then very cautiously.

Sigh!  It had such potential.

Just thought you might like to know my experience.

 

Regards,

Ian 

[FPiette 385]

Could you be more specific about what doesn't work as you expect?

Maybe add some screen shots showing the issues?

Which component is not showing correctly?

If you think Delphi 11 has a problem, please write a report at https://quality.embarcadero.com.

[David Heffernan 2353]

All prior experience tells us this is what happens with a new release. Now they spend a year or two fixing this round of bugs. We'll, fixing the most significant ones. Some will be with us for a while. 

[Kryvich 165]

High DPI is a big step forward in Windows development. Like the transition to Unicode, it may require a careful study of the codebase, fixing custom rendering of forms, updating third party components. This will not be automatically fixed with a new patch of IDE.

[KenR 29]

D11 is far too buggy to use in production. Maybe in a year or so given the speed that Embarcaderor fixes bugs (and sometimes never)!

[Uwe Raabe 2064]

As already discussed in another thread, using a zero release for production is usually not a good decision. Always wait for the dot 1 release and then decide.

[Kryvich 165]

Waiting for the IDE update is not a best strategy. If you plan to update your development environment, you should prepare your code for the High DPI.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Kryvich

[Uwe Raabe 2064]

I agree that preparing is a good thing, but I would refuse to put that into production.

[Vandrovnik 215]

58 minutes ago, KenR said:

D11 is far too buggy to use in production. Maybe in a year or so given the speed that Embarcaderor fixes bugs (and sometimes never)!

Are there more problems than in D10.4.2?

[Uwe Raabe 2064]

17 minutes ago, Vandrovnik said:

Are there more problems than in D10.4.2?

Others.

[Ian Branch 128]

Hi Team,

The Customer uses multiple modes.  LAN, RDP & ThinFinity for his Staff as they work from Home and from multiple Shops.  As well as Android tablets via their browser into Thinfinity.

The Apps are all 32 bit.

I have not been able to reproduce any of their 'issues', except in my first days of D11, but they insist that they are getting screens not writing correctly with issues ranging from the left side of text cut off in the field to whole sections of the from moving up over the components above.  This one seems to be related to having a TPanel on top of a TPanel.

I observed other issues also related to TPanel.

To fields disappearing.  There should be a DB field after Name in this image and the whole bottom section has moved up a little more than the height of the 'Consumer' text.  When I log in via the same means, the field shows.

 

Here, in a different App, you can see the 19 that should be the day in the date only just showing the back of the 9.  Again, when I logged in, all the date, 19/10/2021 showed.

They have cited other similar issues but haven't supplied images.

Regardless of where the issue is att, 'The Customer is always right' until proven otherwise.

As far as reporting, I am knee deep in going back to D10.4.2 where there were none of these issues, so I can get a fresh set of Apps, 21 of them, uploaded to the Customer's server tonight.

I appreciate your inputs.

Obviously if I was able to reproduce the issue(s) I could address them but alas....

 

Ian

[FPiette 385]

Is the app VCL or FMX ?

Which component set are you using ? You don't show much but it doesn't look standard Delphi components.

Do the users have a HiDPI monitor ?

What is your and their zoom factor for text size (In Windows display settings).

 

[dummzeuch 1517]

Many of the still existing problems should have been found during the beta tests and should have been fixed before the release.

The current state of D11 should be considered public beta, not ready for production, but they charge for it (quite a lot).

 

It's a hen and egg problem really:

E.g. The VCL designer is not usable in the current state (IMHO), so why should one use it?

But if nobody uses it, the bugs will not be found, reported and fixed.

[David Heffernan 2353]

55 minutes ago, dummzeuch said:

But if nobody uses it, the bugs will not be found, reported and fixed.

You'd think that a good engineering department would be able to develop programs to a sufficient level of quality that you wouldn't need the public to do the testing by trial and error.

 

I don't agree with the sentiment here that it is not possible to create good quality software without getting the public to test it. 

[Uwe Raabe 2064]

2 hours ago, dummzeuch said:

Many of the still existing problems should have been found during the beta tests

Who says that they weren't?

 

Edit: To get a hint, just check the open QP entries for Delphi 11 created before the release date: https://quality.embarcadero.com/browse/RSP-35310?jql=status in (Open%2C "In Progress"%2C Reopened%2C "Needs feedback"%2C Reported) AND affectedVersion %3D "11.0 Alexandria" AND created <%3D 2021-09-09

Edited October 20, 2021 by Uwe Raabe

[mvanrijnen 123]

 

main problem is that we have now a buggy D11, but they don't look back and fix the D10 version, there a lot of bugs that they could fix, but they just don't.

i thought part of the subscription program was that they would fix bugs from a previous release.  They entered a path where they never gonna get a (reasonable) bug fixed product. 

very very disappointed.

 

[dummzeuch 1517]

2 hours ago, Uwe Raabe said:

4 hours ago, dummzeuch said:

Many of the still existing problems should have been found during the beta tests

Who says that they weren't?

You left out the important second part of my sentence: "... and should have been fixed before the release "

 

 

[Rollo62 539]

6 hours ago, Uwe Raabe said:

As already discussed in another thread, using a zero release for production is usually not a good decision. Always wait for the dot 1 release and then decide.

But you have to sometimes, in case of you have to use Android / iOS.

Anyway, I find D11 quite stable so far, but I'm still in the process of porting and testing.

At least I can say that I have no show-stoppers yet 🙏

[FredS 138]

13 minutes ago, Rollo62 said:

At least I can say that I have no show-stoppers yet

So at least one step above 'unusable' 🙂

[Rollo62 539]

Just now, FredS said:

So at least one step above 'unusable' 🙂

I hope that I make my first D11 AppStore Upload soon ...  thats usable enough if it works as expected

[FredS 138]

1 hour ago, mvanrijnen said:

never gonna get a (reasonable) bug fixed product.

Sure seems that way, won a bet that we'd have 10.5 before key issues in 10.4 where solved..

 

[FredS 138]

1 minute ago, Rollo62 said:

my first D11 AppStore Upload soon

Unfortunate History tells me that this is when the real headaches get started.. unlike everyone that wants a bug report with full details from coders, the end user base usually just tosses it out and don't even bother to report those 'unknown' issues..

 

 

[Ian Branch 128]

1 hour ago, FredS said:

the end user base usually just tosses it out and don't even bother to report those 'unknown' issues..

Alas!  So it is.. 😞

[Alberto Fornés 22]

Maybe if you don't have the human resources and / or time to do a good test and find bugs before releasing the product, and you hope that the customers will find and report them, maybe Embarcadero could offer that version at a lower price and establish a more honest relationship.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Alberto Fornés

[FredS 138]

1 minute ago, Alberto Fornés said:

could offer that version

Or offer a Community Edition first?

The only problem with that would be that would increase the reported bug count dramatically..