Delphi 11, migrate or wait

[emileverh 21]

Question, I have a large D10.4 project ( approx. 80 forms and lots of frames, also DevExpress and ReportBuilder). Is it worth upgrading now to D11?  I did a quick test and I tried loading my project and I see still some high DPI issues, especially on frames. I can reposition the components and it seems to be okay.  I have the latest november patch loaded.

 

But can I aspect new issues ( which I did not see now, because I did not went trough all my forms)? Or should I wait until D11 patch 1?

 

Comments welcome 😉

[David Heffernan 2345]

It's really for you to decide. You have to test your app. We can't know what issues you will face. The big question to ask your self is what are the benefits and do they out weight the downsides which are primarily risk of new defects. 

[KenR 29]

I am certainly waiting for a major bug to be fixed relating to TRESTRequest before I can use D11 in production. See https://quality.embarcadero.com/browse/RSP-35341

Edited December 14, 2021 by KenR

[emileverh 21]

9 minutes ago, David Heffernan said:

It's really for you to decide. You have to test your app. We can't know what issues you will face. The big question to ask your self is what are the benefits and do they out weight the downsides which are primarily risk of new defects. 

I was curious what other developers are experiencing, specially on high DPI screens....

 

In 10.4  I have to restart the IDE 3-4 times a day. Because of internal compiler errors. I hope/hoped that that will be less in D11. For me is High DPI now the thing that I can literally see that is not quite good. And there are/where lots of issues on High DPI on https://quality.embarcadero.com/

Edited December 14, 2021 by emileverh

[David Heffernan 2345]

6 minutes ago, emileverh said:

In 10.4  I have to restart the IDE 3-4 times a day. Because of internal compiler errors. I hope/hoped that that will be less in D11.

Based on historical experience this seems wildly optimistic! 

[Lars Fosdal 1792]

In addition to all the work required to move to a broken DPI aware solution, the state of the debuggers makes me frustrated.

As usual, the release of 11 was premature.  We are waiting for Update 1. 

[FPiette 383]

I moving all my project to Delphi 11. Up to now, I've nearly ONE MILLION lines moved without a single problem. I don't use high DPI.

With D10.4, I had to restart IDE from time to time. With D11, it runs continuously, I don't even stop it when my day is done.

 

[Dave Craggs 7]

I always installed new versions of Delphi and then see if they build. VCL stuff seems to work pretty much OK from one version to another.

 

Saying that I let my subscription lapse a year ago. Might consider jumping back in, but the cost is much too high 

[David Heffernan 2345]

49 minutes ago, Dave Craggs said:

Saying that I let my subscription lapse a year ago. Might consider jumping back in, but the cost is much too high 

Yeah, you can't jump back in can you. You have to start again from scratch. 

[Dave Craggs 7]

9 minutes ago, David Heffernan said:

Yeah, you can't jump back in can you. You have to start again from scratch. 

Indeed - and it is FAR too expensive 

[mvanrijnen 123]

2 minutes ago, Dave Craggs said:

Indeed - and it is FAR too expensive 

nah, it's not too expensive, upgrading just does not solve enough problems for existing customer, nor give it enough bugfree new feautures. 

The price is right for good tooling, it just does not live up to the price 🙂

 

[Dave Craggs 7]

4 minutes ago, mvanrijnen said:

nah, it's not too expensive, upgrading just does not solve enough problems for existing customer, nor give it enough bugfree new feautures. 

The price is right for good tooling, it just does not live up to the price 🙂

 

Given that I only use it now for VCL stuff, it is very hard to justify an upgrade.

[Uwe Raabe 2057]

9 minutes ago, David Heffernan said:

Yeah, you can't jump back in can you. You have to start again from scratch. 

You can wait a couple of years and collect the subscription price you kept until it pays for the cost of a new license. Combined with a special offer period that can actually pay off.

 

I for myself have decided to stay with subscription and take advantage of these multiple year subscriptions. Paying a bigger amount once will protect me from the yearly decisions to renew, while keeping me always on the latest version. I still can decide which projects to upgrade and which not deciding only on technical reasons (time usually can be neglected then). For me this is definitely the better approach, but it may not be for others.

[Dave Craggs 7]

1 minute ago, Uwe Raabe said:

You can wait a couple of years and collect the subscription price you kept until it pays for the cost of a new license. Combined with a special offer period that can actually pay off.

 

I for myself have decided to stay with subscription and take advantage of these multiple year subscriptions. Paying a bigger amount once will protect me from the yearly decisions to renew, while keeping me always on the latest version. I still can decide which projects to upgrade and which not deciding only on technical reasons (time usually can be neglected then). For me this is definitely the better approach, but it may not be for others.

That's worth considering!

[Roger Cigol 103]

Warning: With RAD Studio 11 there is currently an issue with TLabelledEdit if you have the label to the left of the edit box. The positioning of the label sometimes is wrong at design time and it doesn't re position correctly if you update the label contents at run time. If you use TLabelledEdit with labels to the left of the edit box then check this out before moving projects to 11.0. Embarcadero know of this issue. It is not fixed in the "Novemeber" patch.

[Der schöne Günther 316]

I am still on 10.0 Seattle for our main product.

 

I'd hate to invest ten hours into carefully porting everything over to 11, only to find out "Nah, it's not ready yet".

Maybe 10.4 would be a better choice, for the time being? In 11.0 Alexandria, there isn't anything too exciting in the RTL/VCL, but the IDE seems much improved (LSP, High DPI).

 

Still undecided whether it's worth a shot. 🤔

No one knows when something like "11.1" could be dropped. Two months? Four months?

Edited December 14, 2021 by Der schöne Günther

[FPiette 383]

33 minutes ago, Der schöne Günther said:

I am still on 10.0 Seattle for our main product.

I'd hate to invest ten hours into carefully porting everything over to 11, only to find out "Nah, it's not ready yet". 

Is 10.0 the first Delphi version that you use ?

The risk you are exposed to is that if you don't update your code with each new release, the more difficult it will be. Between two consecutive releases, porting is quite easy. If you skip many releases, it will become more and more complex. Not only for Delphi itself, but also for 3rd party components you use.

[Rollo62 536]

43 minutes ago, Der schöne Günther said:

I'd hate to invest ten hours into carefully porting everything over to 11, only to find out "Nah, it's not ready yet".

If you don't want to switch to D11 yet, I would highly recommend already to "porting and testing" from D11 to the older version, as much as you can.

This will help to keep updated and makes the final upgrade in the future more reliable and easy.

 

Otherwise, what @FPiette mentioned, would bite you much harder one day.

[Anders Melander 1782]

Quote

... the same as Delphi lot of commercial shit and shouting, but not really a usable product.

2 hours ago, mvanrijnen said:

nah, it's not too expensive, upgrading just does not solve enough problems for existing customer, nor give it enough bugfree new feautures. 

The price is right for good tooling, it just does not live up to the price 🙂

You do know that you don't speak for everyone, right?

[Lajos Juhász 293]

5 hours ago, emileverh said:

In 10.4  I have to restart the IDE 3-4 times a day. Because of internal compiler errors. I hope/hoped that that will be less in D11.

In Delphi 11 for some cases you have a cycle: compile, make changes, restart the ide, recompile.

 

About the debugger unfortunately it looks like that the developers that should work on that failed to install Delphi 11. Evaluate/Modify, Watch list working only for a Hello World projects. Double click on call stack when the weather is good outside may navigate to the code. 

Local variables can also display strange values.

 

Also have to use the new broken LSP, sometimes restart of the IDE help other times you just don't have luck with it.

[mvanrijnen 123]

52 minutes ago, Anders Melander said:

You do know that you don't speak for everyone, right?

I do know that yes, why  the question, are you speaking for everyone ? 

 

[FPiette 383]

46 minutes ago, Lajos Juhász said:

Evaluate/Modify, Watch list working only for a Hello World projects. Double click on call stack when the weather is good outside may navigate to the code. 

That is definitely NOT my experience. You have something wrong on your system. Maybe you loaded a bunch of extensions. I only use MMX Code Explorer.

 

If you have the problem you mention, please create a reproducible, minimalist example of code and give detailed instructions to reproduce the issue. Publish it here but for sure on quality.embarcadero.com. Anything else if blablabla.

[Darian Miller 361]

6 hours ago, emileverh said:

Question, I have a large D10.4 project ( approx. 80 forms and lots of frames, also DevExpress and ReportBuilder). Is it worth upgrading now to D11?  I did a quick test and I tried loading my project and I see still some high DPI issues, especially on frames. I can reposition the components and it seems to be okay.  I have the latest november patch loaded.

 

But can I aspect new issues ( which I did not see now, because I did not went trough all my forms)? Or should I wait until D11 patch 1?

 

Comments welcome 😉

 

I have a section "Some reported new version issues" with RAD Studio 11 on my wiki that you could review: https://github.com/ideasawakened/DelphiKB/wiki/D28.ALEXANDRIA.11.0.0.0

It doesn't list all the issues, feel free to add yours if it's missing.

 

I would recommend that you start the process and prepare your application for upgrade but don't perform the upgrade until it passes your testing.  There was a patch released a month after RS11 was released, and another cumulative patch a month later.  I would guess/hope that we will see another patch soon.

 

Here's a link to a Quality Portal dashboard listing top active issues over the last few months.  It would be another resource to review:

https://quality.embarcadero.com/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=14502

 

[Lajos Juhász 293]

7 minutes ago, FPiette said:

If you have the problem you mention, please create a reproducible, minimalist example of code and give detailed instructions to reproduce the issue. Publish it here but for sure on quality.embarcadero.com. Anything else if blablabla.

As I wrote a Hello world example will work. In order to break things you have to work on a real application. I am not allowed to publish the source code for any application I am working on. For you maybe it's blablabla for others maybe it worth knowing the state of Delphi 11.

[mvanrijnen 123]

This discussion is every time a new delphi version is released it seems. 

And there are people with no problems at all, and there are people with mediocre problems, and there are (as am i and my collegue) people who get frustrated with every update/ugrade 🙂

Maybe EMB would do good to investegate why some (i don't know how many) people have still such big problems with Delphi, is it some specific component, but i do not see any efford from EMB to fix some problems for once and for all

(LSP anyone) 

 

We did upgrade every 6months/year, but we are waiting with upgrading to D11 now, to few bugfixes for us to go over.

 

 

 

keep noted, that this is just my opinion and i do not speak for the whole world. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by mvanrijnen