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Leif Uneus

Increasing registration count not possible without active maintenance support

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I pay for the subscription and am happy to do so.  It's pays for itself.  However, when they pull shenanigans like not allowing people who bought a perpetual license to run software they paid for it makes me wonder if this is a company I want to do business with.   They better respond in crystal clear fashion that they are making a permanent change to this process to avoid people getting locked out of software they paid for.

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Mike, I completely agree with you. I also have a subscription but the risk that this kind of behaviour adds to my business is not something I'm prepared to just accept.

 

Given the very poor response by Atanas in his blog post, I'll be looking elsewhere. I wonder how many others will do the same.

 

https://community.idera.com/developer-tools/b/blog/posts/from-the-gm-new-updates-and-changes-to-the-registration-bumps-policy

 

It's a shame really because it could so easily have been resolved. Ignoring the fact that it shouldn't have happened in the first place.

 

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I totally agree! This is not something one should just accept/dismiss/ignore/whatever. They will only learn, if they are told what they do wrong. This might not even be ill will on their part. And while writing about the issue in the coolest Delphi forum on the planet is... well, cool. It is not "telling them". This should be done directly.

 

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18 hours ago, Mike Margerum said:

I pay for the subscription

 

If someone is only using Win32 and looks at the last releases there is no point in paying for a subscription that ends up adding more bugs at every turn.
My guess is that EMBT found that out and are now turning to 'rentalware'.

 

The 'bump' thing simply delays and staggers 'complainers', eventually you simply won't be able to move Delphi to a new computer unless you subsidize the worst subscription mechanism I've seen (lately). Nothing like getting an email 4-6 months ahead of time padded with useless extras..

 

Your mileage may vary..

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4 minutes ago, FredS said:

 

If someone is only using Win32 and looks at the last releases there is no point in paying for a subscription that ends up adding more bugs at every turn.
My guess is that EMBT found that out and are now turning to 'rentalware'.

 

The 'bump' thing simply delays and staggers 'complainers', eventually you simply won't be able to move Delphi to a new computer unless you subsidize the worst subscription mechanism I've seen (lately). Nothing like getting an email 4-6 months ahead of time padded with useless extras..

 

Your mileage may vary..

 

There is no point in me continuing to keep the subscription except to protect my customer from the exact  sh** EMB just pulled. I'm still on Berlin and won't be moving.   This delphi app is a mission critical for a business and they pay for the license.   It's a 15 year old VCL app that is quite large and I don't particularly want to rewrite.  I regret moving off Delphi 7.

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9 minutes ago, FredS said:

 

If someone is only using Win32 and looks at the last releases there is no point in paying for a subscription that ends up adding more bugs at every turn.
My guess is that EMBT found that out and are now turning to 'rentalware'.

 

The 'bump' thing simply delays and staggers 'complainers', eventually you simply won't be able to move Delphi to a new computer unless you subsidize the worst subscription mechanism I've seen (lately). Nothing like getting an email 4-6 months ahead of time padded with useless extras..

 

Your mileage may vary..

Their renewal process is ridiculous.  They tack on some $500 "premium" support thing.  My subscription should cover "support".   Jet brains is the model for how renewals should be handled.   Then they try to sell you 24, 36 months.  why can't i just go online and renew?  i have to deal with a sales guy first.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mike Margerum said:

Then they try to sell you 24, 36 months.

 

Feels like the 2 for 1 Lifetime Subscription sale is just around the corner.. :classic_huh:

 

Quote

"We are going to concentrate on the Enterprise sector!"
- Last words I heard from Borland

 

Edited by FredS

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I just wonder why not people using VmWare or similar virtualisation for Delphi? Then you never have to move to a new computer and this problem is gone. A VM have also other advantages.

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28 minutes ago, Berocoder said:

I just wonder why not people using VmWare or similar virtualisation for Delphi?

In my case it's because I need access to specialized devices (cameras, lasers, GPSes ... some of it only available in one of our measuring vehicles) to develop and debug software that communicates with these devices. Most of that communication is time critical, so even if that device access could be virtualized, it would only get me so far (I can use remote desktop though, so I don't have to sit in the actual car.)

I tried to use the remote debugger, but it was not stable enough.

So I ended up installing Delphi on each of the controlling computers. Of course I ran into the installation limit frequently, because those computers just don't survive the conditions they are used in for much longer than 2 years (it's cheaper to frequently replace them rather than trying to protect them.) That's why I switched to a network named license last year. Much more convenient.

Of course that's not quite the typical use case for Delphi.

33 minutes ago, Berocoder said:

Then you never have to move to a new computer and this problem is gone.

Until Microsoft stops supporting your operating system and the corporate IT department tells you to upgrade, because your Windows XP/7/8 is a security risk.

And even if that does not happen, keeping several VMs up to date while maintaining backups quickly becomes a major chore. Even with multi terabyte hard disks it still takes time to copy them around.

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10 hours ago, Berocoder said:

I just wonder why not people using VmWare or similar virtualisation for Delphi? Then you never have to move to a new computer and this problem is gone. A VM have also other advantages.

Many do use VMs. Many did not in the days of D5..7.

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I was using Delphi 7 up until 2016 when I invested in Delphi Berlin Professional for macOS and Windows development. It included the new "maintenance subscription" that expired with Delphi Tokyo 10.2.1.  I declined the August 2017 email offer to renew maintenance at $A 831.69 mainly because there was no 64 bit macOS compiler. Then 2018 came and went and still no macOS 64 bit compiler. Then 10.3 came and went in 2019 and no 64 bit macOS compiler So much for EMBT roadmaps. I understand it *might* be in the next Delphi update scheduled for mid-2019.

So, I was seriously considering stumping up the cash to again  buy a Delphi licence coincidentally with a 30% discount currently being offered by the local agent UNTIL I received this:

 

"I have copied the renewals team in this email response (renewals@idera.com). Your renewals representative will be able to provide you with the options to renew your support and maintenance. Once your licenses are current on maintenance, we will be happy to help with this registration limit increase. We are closing this case. Once you have arranged maintenance reinstatement with our Renewals Team, please submit a new case with your request."

 

A couple of days ago I downloaded the macOS version of Lazarus - wow, 64 bit compiler - and I'm now in the process of porting my macOS/Windows application to Lazarus. If it works out, well, you can guess the rest.

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6 hours ago, OzTrev said:

UNTIL I received this

Hi OzTrev

  When did you receive that? There was a reply on the Embarcadero blog site that indicated that this may have been overturned. However the language used was very tricky and may not mean that at all.

 

  If you got that more than a week or so ago, Please try them again and let us know how it goes.

 

Blog post here :

  https://community.idera.com/developer-tools/b/blog/posts/from-the-gm-new-updates-and-changes-to-the-registration-bumps-policy

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There is no reply. I`m waiting 3 weeks for now. Tried to activate the software one day ago - nothing Atanas do not know how to reply or he doesnt want. There is only one option uninstall and get the money back. I`m afraid that such politics will be a nail in the coffin for emb. Hope that commercial component vendors will invest in lazarus if only lmd (specially docking pack) would make a lazarus version and some of the devexpress like bars i would never look back. In the meantime c# for me is the way go without any crippled drm.

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Just now, cupwalker said:

Tried to activate the software one day ago - nothing

Interesting seeing as Atanas has stated that everyone has received an automatic bump. Seems that may not be accurate after all.

 

I too wish that DevExpress would support either Lazarus and/or Remobjects Island. It would make a switch from Delphi to one of those a lot easier.

 

Currently looking at using RemObjects Oxygene, Hydra and Island as a route off of Delphi. The idea being that we can re-do the UI in DevExpress for .Net or Web technologies.

 

 

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On 6/9/2019 at 8:47 AM, Berocoder said:

I just wonder why not people using VmWare or similar virtualisation for Delphi? Then you never have to move to a new computer and this problem is gone. A VM have also other advantages.

I use VMware.

But also there it makes much sense to have a clean install after time to time, to cleanup messy IDE setups. 

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17 hours ago, OzTrev said:

I was using Delphi 7 up until 2016 when I invested in Delphi Berlin Professional for macOS and Windows development. It included the new "maintenance subscription" that expired with Delphi Tokyo 10.2.1.  I declined the August 2017 email offer to renew maintenance at $A 831.69 mainly because there was no 64 bit macOS compiler. Then 2018 came and went and still no macOS 64 bit compiler. Then 10.3 came and went in 2019 and no 64 bit macOS compiler So much for EMBT roadmaps. I understand it *might* be in the next Delphi update scheduled for mid-2019.

So, I was seriously considering stumping up the cash to again  buy a Delphi licence coincidentally with a 30% discount currently being offered by the local agent UNTIL I received this:

 

"I have copied the renewals team in this email response (renewals@idera.com). Your renewals representative will be able to provide you with the options to renew your support and maintenance. Once your licenses are current on maintenance, we will be happy to help with this registration limit increase. We are closing this case. Once you have arranged maintenance reinstatement with our Renewals Team, please submit a new case with your request."

 

A couple of days ago I downloaded the macOS version of Lazarus - wow, 64 bit compiler - and I'm now in the process of porting my macOS/Windows application to Lazarus. If it works out, well, you can guess the rest.

Similar story here.  I was happily on Delphi 7.  Drank the fire monkey/ data snap kool aid and upgraded to XE8.  I had the grand vision of one pascal code based for server, mac, windows, and iOS.  It was a total failure and so now i have a VCL app on Berlin and i'm paying for the maintenance because the app has to work.   Delphi seems to be in the final phase of life.  Wringing every cent out of customers that have critical systems built in it who they know they have over a barrel.  I don't think any of it is a mistake, but a well orchestrated plan to maximize return on an investment.  The first clue was when they came in and clobbered the dev team here in the U.S.  

 

I dont pay for the license, but i'd rather bill my customer the time to get the app ported to something else than continue to pay for this tool.  Delphi is dead to me.

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10 hours ago, Mike Margerum said:

Similar story here.  I was happily on Delphi 7.  Drank the fire monkey/ data snap kool aid and upgraded to XE8.  I had the grand vision of one pascal code based for server, mac, windows, and iOS.  It was a total failure and so now i have a VCL app on Berlin and i'm paying for the maintenance because the app has to work.   Delphi seems to be in the final phase of life.  Wringing every cent out of customers that have critical systems built in it who they know they have over a barrel.  I don't think any of it is a mistake, but a well orchestrated plan to maximize return on an investment.  The first clue was when they came in and clobbered the dev team here in the U.S.  

 

I dont pay for the license, but i'd rather bill my customer the time to get the app ported to something else than continue to pay for this tool.  Delphi is dead to me.

Same. I've let my subscription expire earlier this year mostly due to the MacOS64 support still not being there and the beyond ridiculous "error insight not supporting the new language features". The current drama with the registration limit confirms that I made the right choice.

 

I am in the process of porting all my current customers applications to other environments and this is costing me a small fortune as I cannot in good conscience bill my customers for that.

 

I really hope to be proven wrong but to be honest I have given up hope.

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21 hours ago, WillH said:

Hi OzTrev

  When did you receive that? There was a reply on the Embarcadero blog site that indicated that this may have been overturned. However the language used was very tricky and may not mean that at all.

 

  If you got that more than a week or so ago, Please try them again and let us know how it goes. 

 

Blog post here :

  https://community.idera.com/developer-tools/b/blog/posts/from-the-gm-new-updates-and-changes-to-the-registration-bumps-policy

My enquiry was not about a "registration bump" but my unsuccessful attempts to register a product for which I have a licence in the Licence Manager which shows as "unregistered", although it may be that my attempts (all of which failed claiming the product was registered to someone else! And no, I have had only one account for everything since 2006) in fact ate up all the installs I was permitted. I re-read the Blog entry. The conclusion from the GM was to contact renewals who could help (for a fee).

I have my doubts about the reliability of the Licence Manager as on the purchase of Berlin, I had to lodge a support request to get the licence to work. In the end I had to contact the local agent and get him to contact EMBT to get it working.

Porting to Lazarus is a tad painful (this was an FMX application), but the light is now appearing at the end of the tunnel.

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3 hours ago, mmb said:

Same. I've let my subscription expire earlier this year mostly due to the MacOS64 support still not being there and the beyond ridiculous "error insight not supporting the new language features". The current drama with the registration limit confirms that I made the right choice.

 

I am in the process of porting all my current customers applications to other environments and this is costing me a small fortune as I cannot in good conscience bill my customers for that.

 

I really hope to be proven wrong but to be honest I have given up hope.

Curious.  What are you porting to?

 

I agree on charging the customer for a straight port, but if im adding new features or value I wouldn't have an ethical issue and it would all be transparent to them.

 

Dam shame because Delphi was an awesome desktop dev tool.  Unrivaled.

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Atanas just posted an update on his blog post.

 

Policy Update: We still receive occasional comments on this and want to make sure we are clear on our Policy. Registration limits were introduced a long time ago with very valid use cases, but many of these are now outdated. We still do them, just now they get approved by Account Management (Sales/Renewals) vs. Support. Further, we have done several auto-bumps for everyone that should limit these issues altogether (and will do more as needed). As communicated, over the summer, we will work on a more automated way to increase registration limits through the self-service portal.

 

It looks like there was an issue with the auto bump. I can manually process your registration bump if you private message me on here or email me: firstname dot lastname at embarcadero.com

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4 minutes ago, Darian Miller said:

Clarity is certainly not one

 

History will show that not firing him was the worst move by EMBT after this total betrayal of loyal customers..

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2 minutes ago, Darian Miller said:

 

Clarity is certainly not one of his strong points.

 

It also doesn't address the fact that Embarcadero service reps are simply outright refusing to do the bumps for those who aren't on current subscription. His "clarification" doesn't address what Embarcadero is actually doing. I'm starting to suspect that this is going to be like the resolution of the Delphi Pro EULA incident, where Embarcadero tried to convince everyone that they never actually made any change. In this case, his clarification is actually a policy reversal and now he's going to tell sales to stop refusing to do the bumps. Then we'll all be told it was never the policy and we just misunderstood.

 

It'll be just like this:

 

 

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9 minutes ago, FredS said:

 

History will show that not firing him was the worst move by EMBT after this total betrayal of loyal customers..

Embarcadero can't fire him; Idera purchased EMBT and he was the person Idera picked to oversee Delphi. I'm not sure this was his idea either. I heard it was Michael Swindell who came up with the Delphi Pro EULA change (as well as the bogus 3 million users figure) and he's not only still there, he's listed as "Senior Vice President of Marketing and Product Management".  Let's not rule him out as a suspect.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Joseph MItzen said:

Embarcadero can't fire him; Idera purchased EMBT and he was the person Idera picked to oversee Delphi. I'm not sure this was his idea either. I heard it was Michael Swindell who came up with the Delphi Pro EULA change (as well as the bogus 3 million users figure) and he's not only still there, he's listed as "Senior Vice President of Marketing and Product Management".  Let's not rule him out as a suspect.

Also keep in mind that they've told us for 20 years now that we don't understand marketing. Perhaps not -- I certainly do not understand THEIR marketing. But in my career I have learned a good deal about customer retention.

According to LinkedIn, his title is now: Mergers and Acquisitions Executive Advisor at Embarcadero Technologies.

And that does not seem to be marketing.

Edited by Bill Meyer
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