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Lars Fosdal

Your RAD Studio 10.4 Sydney issues

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On 6/9/2020 at 7:39 PM, Uwe Raabe said:

You might have a look at https://sourceforge.net/p/radstudioverins/code/HEAD/tree/ and either wait for an update or get your hands dirty doing it yourself.

I found another fork, just for the Liveblame feature I was looking for:

https://github.com/MJSt/DelphiVersionInsight

It was a peace of a cake updating that one. And it seems to work in 10.4 as well.

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The TWebBrowser.Create is crashing in the iOS. To test just add a TWebBrowser to the form and compile. 

The exception is raising in the FMX.WebBrowser.Delegate.iOS.pas in TNativeWebViewHelper.CreateAndInitWebView. Did anyone get a workaround?

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8 hours ago, Scott said:

Seems like Embarcadero need to increase their Beta testing pool

 

That would work if bugs found where actually fixed instead of disappearing into the internal pool of darkness..

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, vfbb said:

The TWebBrowser.Create is crashing in the iOS. To test just add a TWebBrowser to the form and compile. 

The exception is raising in the FMX.WebBrowser.Delegate.iOS.pas in TNativeWebViewHelper.CreateAndInitWebView. Did anyone get a workaround?

 

I found the workaround! Add the WebKit framework to your iOS SDK and update the local file cache. After, in the unit source\rtl\ios\iOSapi.WebKit.pas in the line:

var
  WebKitModule: THandle;
{$ENDIF}

Change to

var
  WebKitModule: THandle;
{$ELSE}
  {$IF NOT DECLARED(_PU)}
  const
    {$IFDEF UNDERSCOREIMPORTNAME}
    _PU = '_';
    {$ELSE}
    _PU = '';
    {$ENDIF}
    {$EXTERNALSYM _PU}
  {$ENDIF}

  procedure EmbedFramework; cdecl; external libWebKit name _PU + 'OBJC_CLASS$_WKWebView';
{$ENDIF}

 

Edited by vfbb
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Posted (edited)

Is it just me, or does 10.4 now forcefully replace my precious tabs with spaces?
aZ2gQmKC6p.thumb.gif.faa4662d54d961c3bfa148435cc9a4c1.gif

I don't understand what is happening, and why it's happening 😪

Edited by Der schöne Günther

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Can you show the Source Options dialog (in Tools - Options - User Interface - Editor Options).

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Cursor through tabs should make no difference, but Optimal fill may do.

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23 hours ago, Scott said:

Seems like Embarcadero need to increase their Beta testing pool

Beta testing is no substitute for having your own comprehensive set of automated tests. Beta testing is best used to help identify issues with design. It really shouldn't be used to find implementation bugs. I hope that Emba don't do that.

 

When Emba tell us that they are going to focus on quality, it comes with talk of how many QP issues have been resolved. But for me that misses the point. Unless they are also fixing the development process that allows so many bugs, they will remain stuck on the treadmill, running to stay still. 

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10 hours ago, Uwe Raabe said:

Cursor through tabs should make no difference, but Optimal fill may do.

Yes, Optimal fill will convert the spaces back to tabs (after the tabs had been converted to spaces 🤪). Strange, but better than nothing. Thanks 😊

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16 minutes ago, David Heffernan said:

Beta testing is no substitute for having your own comprehensive set of automated tests. Beta testing is best used to help identify issues with design. It really shouldn't be used to find implementation bugs. I hope that Emba don't do that.

 

When Emba tell us that they are going to focus on quality, it comes with talk of how many QP issues have been resolved. But for me that misses the point. Unless they are also fixing the development process that allows so many bugs, they will remain stuck on the treadmill

Can't agree more, and let me rephrase that, Embarcadero should de-bug the development process itself, as their testing process proved itself to be a failure over many years now.

 

18 minutes ago, David Heffernan said:

running to stay still. 

Here i have different view point, they are hindering the ability to fix that issue by dividing their resources between products, hence amplifying the bugged development process.

 

See, the LSP that everyone is happy with it, is here not to be a fix but to create bigger issue, let me point few thoughts here 

1) Embarcadero has corporation mind, means dedicating resources for whole year to develop such technology is not likely is light weight decision, on contrary it must had it fare share of logic correctness to be approved.

2) LSP will need maintaining and fixing over years to come, and here were they failed to address, that failing itself is somehow relative but use this simple logic. if you developing X amount of product, with lets say well-grade quality were did your confidence come from to assume with X+1 product you can do better.

3) Again, when you has product failing to reach A-grade quality over Y years (may 10 or more not important here), so why do you assume with additional product you can reach A-grade quality in any less than Y years ?, by A-grade i meant that product is that is working just fine without workarounds or fix or you should be familiar with (5.6.7) version exceptions, a product that many consider to use and happily pay money, isn't that is the end line?

 

I do believe in math and statistics, we all should, for quality of a product, you always should use the natural distribution and imagine that line is the quality, so to reach from 90% to 100% you might need a year or even never, but to get from 50% to 80% you will need way less time, so you have a product(s) with lets call it 90% ( current Delphi ) with less resources it might not fall, so lets call it stays at 90%, the problem is elsewhere, your product is sold in market has competitors products (same purposes), are these products 90% or 100% , here assuming the standard for such product is still the same, but that is not true, eg. Delphi Compiler in late 90s and early 2000s are bleeding edge technology in generating fast assembly code, where is it now ? it will be unfair to compare Delphi to other compiler not to take care of the modern standard technology, which all other compilers are doing, Delphi is moving to use LLVM, that is great and undoubtfully modern compiler, but what a compiler without its RTL, in other words will LLVM Delphi compiler on visual studio for Rasberry Pi worth 100$ subscription ? how many new comers will consider to use such product.

 

Now LSP is a seed for new product that will degrade or obsolete the current product(s), that what many of you know but refuse to believe, it is not here to be used in RAD IDE at all, but for something different, imagine you are car manufacturer and your chief designer been called to enhance the car and it parts to some modern technology, and he goes let move this part ( engine, battery, steering, navigation.. ) to a trailer to be pulled by the car , does that sound right ? or the chief is preparing to sell that part with different car? he is here imagining it will be sold right away and many car will be happy with it, will one buy a car where GPS navigation system is hovering outside the window, or who failed to make the battery perfect inside the car will make it better on top of it.

 

Focusing on LSP to work may be is fine, but in my opinion it will big lose for Embarcadero and for all the Delphi or RAD users, no matter how great product they will try to sell while having cutting edge feature list, it will not make any one here happy with quality, price, license type... hence it will make them unhappy, then what ? it will be easier to try another new product in few years later and so on..

 

Sounds like slippery slope fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope , i am sorry if you read all that, but it might be a prophecy too or just simple logic deduction (which i really love to be false), we already have enough evidence in history to be build same logic (Appmethod ,Rad for PHP..)

 

This is may be irrelative to subject, but it doesn't worth new thread, and Daniel feel to point that out, i am not opening a discussion of that here, just some putting some of my broken logic info, about Sydney issues, as i see them as an issue.

 

Suggestion to Embarcadero : define your product and industry and compete within that range, rethink your future product range and target only when you have the ability, ditch the false overconfidence, because replicating companies like TMS or DevArt in adding more products is not in your ability set, both has solid efficient teams, who can add products and keep the quality and supporting it at A+ grade, they already doing this for many years, in fact it is a mistake for both companies to not add products while they can, they are doing it and they doing every right step, this can't be done with outsource teams, who know nothing about if you will use them tomorrow, and they don't care, they will use your same logic, it is what it is, pay for it or leave it, we will try to do better.

 

This post is not for discussion, or trolling, i really don't care to be corrected here, specially from who think he should find excuses for Embarcadero, they are more capable of finding their own, that is in their ability set like all of us.

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Ops, i forgot to point the obvious here, my excuse for the above post, so to be clear, David started it not me. 😄

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5 hours ago, David Heffernan said:

It really shouldn't be used to find implementation bugs.

I don't quite agree with that. Yes, it shouldn't be your primary source of implementation bugs but presumably the additional resources the testers represent will result in more bugs found. I can't see why that's a bad thing.

 

5 hours ago, David Heffernan said:

Beta testing is best used to help identify issues with design.

My experience with the Delphi betas is that at the time they start, the design is already set in stone. My experience is also that the majority of beta tester aren't really qualified to give usable feedback on design and architecture.

Things may have improved though.

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4 hours ago, Kas Ob. said:

This post is not for discussion, or trolling, i really don't care to be corrected here, specially from who think he should find excuses for Embarcadero, they are more capable of finding their own, that is in their ability set like all of us.

If your post isn't meant as trolling then you should phrase your statements in a different way.

If you do not want people to respond to your post then you should post it on one-way broadcast media instead.

/ignore

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26 minutes ago, Anders Melander said:

Yes, it shouldn't be your primary source of implementation bugs

That's what I mean. Obviously if somebody finds a bug, whoever it is, that's good. 

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So, please come back to the technical aspects of (your) 10.4 issues. This is not the right topic for a discussion about the general quality-management of EMBT.

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On 6/11/2020 at 1:32 AM, Scott said:

Well I'm quickly coming to the conclusion the 10.4 is utter crap 😞

It keeps locking up and access violating.

Seems like Embarcadero need to increase their Beta testing pool because this release is a real shocker.

Back to 10.3 I go and the awesome FixPack

 

I haven't seen any lock ups or AV's on 10.4.  Maybe it's your environment / third party controls / add-ins.. do you have any IDE Experts installed?

 

My problem with 10.4 is Code Insight.  It's awesome when it works, but it falls apart over time.  

 

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Posted (edited)

Sydney is to me like the incredible mr. Ripley in that first appearances was very good. Very. After some actual real-world use, it's starting to act up and i, unfortunately, feel at home again in that i recognize the problems.

 

This one is new to me though:

 

image.thumb.png.9a534535340cd57076d62672e68a3d15.png

 

Before... what? Debugging. This happened while tracing along Win32 Debug.

 

I have no idea how to reproduce or report this.

 

Edit: Ripley?

Edited by Dany Marmur
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9 hours ago, Dany Marmur said:

Sydney is to me like the incredible mr. Ripley in that first appearances was very good. Very. After some actual real-world use, it's starting to act up and i, unfortunately, feel at home again in that i recognize the problems.

 

This one is new to me though:

 

image.thumb.png.9a534535340cd57076d62672e68a3d15.png

 

Before... what? Debugging. This happened while tracing along Win32 Debug.

 

I have no idea how to reproduce or report this.

 

Edit: Ripley?

Also I see that "in order to proceed", and in Project --> Options a label 'Panel1' is displayed until you click the left menú.

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Posted (edited)

Only issue I've found so far (desktop VCL) is https://quality.embarcadero.com/browse/RSP-29287 : Wrong text positioning for TButton with custom style. In my case it's buttons with images; OK without styling; add style and caption is output in the middle of the button, not in the middle of the space to the side of the button. Appears to be caused by a line added to TButtonGlyph.CalcButtonLayout. 

Edited by TonyB

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It is strange that 10.4 does not show access violation here while the error is obvious:

 

c1 := 'A';

p := PChar(c1); // wrong explicit conversion: widechar to integer to pointer.

// Now p is a pointer to the memory location at the address 0x00000041 - that is, the value of Ord(A)

showmessage(p^); // here p^ points to memory location at 0x00000041, obviously not was meant by the author

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Hi All,

 

Just got a  chance to install Delphi 10.4 on my windows 7 Laptop and loaded up a sample.

 

C:\Users\Public\Documents\Embarcadero\Studio\21.0\Samples\Object Pascal\VCL\ToggleSwitch

 

I ran it and when I change the VCL style to Windows10Blue or Windows10Dark it displays incorrectly

 

Anyone else got this.

 

By the way thanks everyone for the great info on this site

Blue.png

Dark.png

Plain10.png

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