Delphi 12 is available

[Vandrovnik 214]

2 hours ago, FreeDelphiPascal said:

Are you kiding me? Pay thousands of $ to get all those tiny featues? Especially that some of them (like multi line strigs or colored lines between begin/end) were already availalbe since 100 years ago via IDE plugins.

Which of these plugins made compiler understand multi-line strings in source code?

[FreeDelphiPascal 19]

14 hours ago, dummzeuch said:

Or are you talking about the property editor for multipline strings?

Yes. That one.

Sorry about the unclear statement.

[FreeDelphiPascal 19]

On 11/11/2023 at 5:49 PM, Stefan Glienke said:

At least in 13 they would have an excuse for poor quality 

Ok. This really made my day! The best replica on the whole forum.
I should put it in my signature.
_____

 

Maybe we should ALL skip buying Delphi 13 if it is still buggy. And the next versions....... Until they finally release something usable.
 

 

Edited November 24, 2023 by FreeDelphiPascal

[Kas Ob. 121]

57 minutes ago, FreeDelphiPascal said:

Until they finally release something usable.

That will not work, your finally is missing a try before hand and an end afterward.

[PeterPanettone 157]

The most significant handicap in Delphi, in my opinion, is the editor, which is still stuck in the Stone Age.

[Vandrovnik 214]

23 minutes ago, PeterPanettone said:

The most significant handicap in Delphi, in my opinion, is the editor, which is still stuck in the Stone Age.

I have no problems with editor (using classic key mapping).

From my point of view, big handicap is poor testing, which often leads to poor quality of new versions (such as https://quality.embarcadero.com/browse/RSP-43274 , which makes Delphi 12 unusable for me; why did they not release a patch yet?!).

[Darian Miller 361]

On 11/10/2023 at 2:13 AM, Vandrovnik said:

The overall impression is good. I welcome multi-line strings.

 

For myself, if I use that new feature it will only be used spargingly because, as usual, new language features break tooling.  Here are a few QP issues added on multi-line strings:

• RSP-43420 multiline string literal class const breaks syncing between IDE form designer and editor
• RSP-43408 Multiline string literal containing reserved word breaks down navigation
• RSP-43380 Multiline string literals breaks code formatter

Given that the inline vars feature was added 5 years ago and the IDE tooling still doesn't fully support it... you really have to wonder when the tooling will properly handle multi-line strings.

 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Darian Miller

[dummzeuch 1505]

12 hours ago, PeterPanettone said:

The most significant handicap in Delphi, in my opinion, is the editor, which is still stuck in the Stone Age.

OK, so what are examples for editors that are not "stuck in the Stone Age"?

[Dalija Prasnikar 1396]

47 minutes ago, dummzeuch said:

OK, so what are examples for editors that are not "stuck in the Stone Age"?

Anything from JetBrains... 

 

I am not saying that Delphi is stuck in the Stone Age... but it is lagging behind in some areas.

[stijnsanders 35]

I remember when I checked out Atom.io a few years ago, I was wowed at what's possible and where the state of the art was going. I understand it kind-of was the open-source answer to Sublime Text. Then I switched to Visual Studio Code, and again was wowed, this time because of how much more things could get better. It's really fitting for a (huge!) community of developers that they're all cooperating to push a single development environment forward. (Even though it's a big for-profit company that acts as the project's steward. It shows how Microsoft itself also evolved...)

[PeterPanettone 157]

21 hours ago, dummzeuch said:

OK, so what are examples for editors that are not "stuck in the Stone Age"?

Many handicaps are corrected by plugins such as GExperts and/or CnWizards. Without these plugins, Delphi would be unusable for me - at least in bigger projects that go beyond the simplest use cases.

On the other hand, the editor contains some valuable gems, such as the replacement of identifiers in a selection.

 

A big thank you must also go to developers like Thomas and the Chinese team of Liu Xiao, without whom, in my opinion, Delphi would not exist in its current form.

 

I believe the next big step in Delphi should be a built-in source editor like UltraEdit and Visual Assist for Delphi. That would make Delphi a real luxury IDE.

 

The designer should also cut out some old habits, such as the dual-use structure panel (that should be replaced by separate structure panels for the Designer and the Source Editor).

Edited November 26, 2023 by PeterPanettone

[Tommi Prami 130]

Couple of nasty bugs in D12 compiler. Please vote:
 

https://quality.embarcadero.com/browse/RSP-43274

https://quality.embarcadero.com/browse/RSP-43418

(if previously discussed in here, don't read the message 😉 )

[Lars Fosdal 1791]

On 11/25/2023 at 10:45 AM, Dalija Prasnikar said:

I am not saying that Delphi is stuck in the Stone Age...

It has progressed to the Bronze Age...

[Dalija Prasnikar 1396]

10 minutes ago, Lars Fosdal said:

It has progressed to the Bronze Age...

I think it got a bit further... we are somewhere in the Dark Ages...

[FreeDelphiPascal 19]

On 11/27/2023 at 9:07 AM, Dalija Prasnikar said:

I think it got a bit further... we are somewhere in the Dark Ages...

You are right, we are going through dark ages (I would also call them sad ages).
So, when are we all going to sign a petition to Embarcadero and ask for a modern Delphi that does not crash every 10 minutes, it is not stuck in the 2000 and does not have the fart-smell of an 100 grandpa?
We should all promise that we won't buy next version until they really really fix it.

And we want a true road map.

Embarcadero should understand that they don't own Delphi. They cannot do whatever they want and when they want. We are the customers.

 

They cannot release 12 new tiny features and pretend it worth buying Delphi 12 just for that.
I mean, come on! I would be ashamed to tell my users that in the next version they will be able to write text on two lines instead of one! This is not something even worth mentioning. Presenting this like a brand new shiny feature means
"Hi Delphi guys,
we full around last year, then we were busy to fix some bugs that were not supposed to be there, and improve the C++ which nobody uses anyway, so for you, we didn't have much time left,

but at least we did this impressive feature that lets you split your string on two lines.

PS: you have to pay for it.

PSS: you have to pay also for the bug fixes!".
 

Have you seen how fast are other languages advancing? Take a look at Julia! High level language BUT in some benchmarks it beats the craps out of grandpa Delphi.
And its costs... nothing! Slap a nice IDE as VS Code on top of it, and you got a nice environment.

Updates? Every few weeks.

 

I am afraid to admit it, but I think I am (we all are) in love with what Delphi was in 95, when it was indeed cutting edge.
Now we are all a bunch of gray beards and bold heads. No new blood to Delphi.

I haven't heard of a single new startup company that uses Delphi.

All the jobs around are offered by companies that started in 90-95 with pascal/delphi. All of them hove now 2 million lines of legacy code and a desperate need of Delphi developers.
I know a few of them that never-ever take down the Delphi job position because it is never filled. Or if they find a good (and pretty old) programmer every 2-3 it is not enough to replenish the big number of old programmers that now are at the retiring age. For each new programmer they put their hands on, two retires. And as the "new" programmer is close to retiring age also, it only perpetuates the avalanche. Been there, seen that with my own eyes. I was the young one there, even though I am not that young anymore.

You also see the lack of Delphi programmers when the job is announced as Delphi "slash" C++. They try to lure-in some C++ Builder programmers this way. Trick them into a Delphi position.

 

I personally try to promote Delphi.
But all my kids around me (nephews, friend's children, etc) are going with the cool wave. The old PHP is getting to be the new cool kid in the town now. Internet technologies. C#.
I am not saying they are better. But they are definitively "cool". Embarcadero, with all its old guys there (good guys/programmers but not in touch with the new generation, with the new ways) and with its "get the money first - give the quality later" policy is not "cool". And cool is ******** important, because you don't lure in into the language old die-hard C or ASM gurus, you want to lure in kids.

My kid is having more fun with Delphi than with Scratch. But I wouldn't put him on a Delphi-career path. Not with Delphi's featured being almost sealed.

 

Embarcadero! The time to reverse the tide is running out! Delphi opportunity window is almost almost closed!
I do see some efforts from Embarcadero (some blogs, some barely-voted youtube videos, some shy promotions), and in general Embarcadero is going into the right direction. But too slow. Waaay too slow.
The biggest positive move was the Community Edition. I would have paid > 1000 euros to buy a license for my kid!
(I still don't have words to say how dismayed I am that Emba didn't offer a free license until few years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

Wellllll.....

In theory, I should shut up and relax, and fave fun with Delphi until my retiring age comes. I never ever had problems getting income with Delphi.
But I love Delphi too much. It will be such a shame for Delphi to get retired the same day I retire!

 

On 11/24/2023 at 10:35 PM, Darian Miller said:

 

For myself, if I use that new feature it will only be used sparingly because, as usual, new language features break tooling.  Here are a few QP issues added on multi-line strings:

I do the same! I never use a new released feature in the first 3-4 years.
I wait for it to get ripe and stable. 🙂Well, some things like "skins" (styles), 64 bit compiler, obviously took more than 3-4 years. FMX, still way to go...
How many years ago they announced first time that Delphi has support for high DPI?
Today, I can't still build decent high dpi apps in Delphi.

 

I personally, won't buy a new license until I get a usable version to worth the price. It simply not fair to pay for bug fixes. My users will laugh at me if I would dare to ask money for a showstopper bug that was not supposed to be there.
I always said (joking) that if Emba will release one-single-true-stable-version they will get out of business because everybody will buy that version (remember Delphi 7?) and lock into it. Nobody will upgrade to the next version for 8-12 years (unless the next version is as good as the other one). I am kinda doing that with 10.4.

Edited November 28, 2023 by FreeDelphiPascal

[Brandon Staggs 276]

2 hours ago, FreeDelphiPascal said:

Embarcadero should understand that they don't own Delphi.

Of course they do.

[David Heffernan 2345]

2 hours ago, FreeDelphiPascal said:

So, when are we all going to sign a petition to Embarcadero and ask for a modern Delphi that does not crash every 10 minutes

Yeah, pretty sure that's all that's needed. Can't believe nobody thought of that before. 

[FreeDelphiPascal 19]

14 hours ago, David Heffernan said:

Yeah, pretty sure that's all that's needed. Can't believe nobody thought of that before. 

Other proposals then?

If we cannot do anything, then Embarcadero owns us.

Edited November 29, 2023 by FreeDelphiPascal

[dummzeuch 1505]

3 hours ago, FreeDelphiPascal said:

Other proposals then?

If we cannot do anything, then Embarcadero owns us.

They do. As long as you haven't got an alternative development environment for the work you rely on, you will have to pay for Delphi or stay with an older version.

[David Heffernan 2345]

4 hours ago, FreeDelphiPascal said:

Other proposals then?

No, your way is sure to work. Crack on.

[Achim Kalwa 61]

On 11/21/2023 at 6:00 PM, Stefan Glienke said:

PSA: Looks like that integer division is broken in 12 due to implementing this feature request.

 

There are at least two reports already about this:

https://quality.embarcadero.com/browse/RSP-43274

https://quality.embarcadero.com/browse/RSP-43418

 

Personally, I would say this absolute "need a hotfix asap" severity.

This one is also related to integer division (currency), but I am not sure if its the same cause:

https://quality.embarcadero.com/browse/RSP-42753

 

D12 is currently not usable for me.

 

[Roger Cigol 103]

On 11/28/2023 at 7:35 PM, FreeDelphiPascal said:

C++ which nobody uses anyway,

I use it. Maybe I am a "nobody" ?

[Stéphane Wierzbicki 45]

5 hours ago, Roger Cigol said:

I use it. Maybe I am a "nobody" ?

Oh, that's you, I heard that nobody is perfect 😉

[PeaShooter_OMO 11]

On 11/25/2023 at 11:45 AM, Dalija Prasnikar said:

Anything from JetBrains...

I like Jetbrains, at least for the little I worked on it. They are really pumping it.

 

Do you have a project on it that is bigger than your largest Delphi project? For which language? If so, how does that IDE behave with that project?

Edited December 1, 2023 by PeaShooter_OMO

[PeaShooter_OMO 11]

@David Heffernan May I assume your company is also "stuck" with Delphi (not sure if that is the correct question, though). I always wondered which IDE you consider to be great and which one you would migrate to if you had to re-write your company's flagship software.